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Pops, no need to be rude. Pink man was just saying it as it is. Remember, he's been there with you!
All we're saying is, is that all this confidence in your beliefs may exist in your head only.
Is that such a bad thing? If it brings you understanding and comfort, then it's done its job.
My opinion: you are born again..... Usually out of guilt... Who have you hurt?
We can help there too....
July 2, 2015 at 9:52 pm (This post was last modified: July 2, 2015 at 9:53 pm by Redbeard The Pink.)
(July 2, 2015 at 8:30 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: I'm sorry but how in the fuck would you scientifically prove something that science can't even begin to answer? And get this you fuck; I know what the fuck I know because I was shone. The Lord had mercy on me. It's that ducking simple. I have had a close relationship with our being ever since. You have no clue. Existence is our God. The fucking opporrunity to reign over all things that we observe. What, that was just from some dust? No fucking way are we so fucking privileged to just happen to be here with the greatness we have just cuz. Are you so fucking shallow that you can't understand that science can't define or even remotely interpret some things? Science is a tool for understanding things. It breaks things down into smaller pieces. How are you going to break something down that isn't material?
Get your head out of your ass.
You are the one who doesn't know. I assure you.
You were shown, you say? How grand. Can you show me? When were you shown? Was anyone else there?
Oh, wait...you mean you were shown in your head, weren't you? Some kind of vision, or maybe just a bunch of warm fuzzies? I had a feeling...well, I've been shown that the god of the christians is inherently paradoxical and an obvious work of mythical fiction. You know what showed me that? THE FUCKING EVIDENCE!
So anyway, you go on to forward a lot of claims without directly refuting or addressing very much of what I said. You mostly just go "BLARGH WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M WRONG?! YOU'RE WRONG! BLARGH!"
I never really said anything about scientifically proving anything, but since you bring it up, yes, science can actually begin to answer the question of whether god exists.
While the existence of god cannot be disproven (one could always say you're just not looking hard enough or just haven't found him yet), the nonexistence of god CAN be disproven; all anyone would have to do is come up with one measly shred of good evidence for the existence of any of the literal millions of gods that supposedly might be out there, and the hypothesis fails completely. Because of this, if science considers the question of god's existence, the default position is non-belief until evidence proves otherwise. That's how science begins to answer the question. Theists have been trying to finish the answer since the dawn of man, and they can't fucking do it because they have no evidence. Period.
Who says we're privileged, anyway, or that we're somehow better or different from other animals? So we think a little better...so what? That's a matter of evolution and has nothing to do with being god's chosen species or some such nonsense. You're acting like we have some divinely inspired dominion over this world, but there's no evidence of that. We've overrun the world and we're pretty much at the top of the food chain, but those are matters of evolution, not traits of some divine gift of power.
I'd go on to address some of the rest of what you said, but honestly you're mostly just blathering angrily, spouting ad hominem, and not making sense. The only other thing I could really say is that your personal feelie-weelies inside your head mean exactly dick in terms of evidence of a claim. They are no more valid or demonstrable to reality than the wild visions of a madman.
The funniest thing about all of this is that you're essentially calling me stupid and shallow when you're obviously less scientifically and logically literate than I am, and you've actually admitted to being less religiously literate than I am. By your own account, you have not even read the New Testament. I have. I've read the whole bible and have a comprehensive knowledge of most of what I've read. I've also read a host of secondary christians writings, I've studied various world religions of both the east and the west, and I have a strong command of christian apologetics. If anything, I should be the one admonishing you for a lack of knowledge and understanding.
Since you haven't read the New Testament, I'll gift you with this to get you started. It's a parable directly from the mouth of Jesus (with some re-translation and paraphrasing, and you maybe shouldn't take the whole thing literally, but it's the inerrant word of gawd...just trust me):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
You're welcome to look that up for yourself. It's in any bible you'll pick up. I think the original text is in Aramaic or Greek or something and contains some nonsense about a speck and a mote (whatever the fuck that is), but that was written for the people of the time, and this is a copy of a copy and a translation of a translation, and this translation is more accurate and sensible to contemporary readers anyway, and who's to say my interpretation is wrong and not divinely inspired? If you say that, you're just a big satan who's going to hell.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
(July 2, 2015 at 3:00 am)Judi Lynn Wrote: Loves his people?
It is the kind of love you cannot possibly understand because you are not delusional and you have not been indoctrinated by a belief system that by any logical standard is veritably defined as insane.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
(July 2, 2015 at 6:50 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: Judi Lynn,
Everything has a path. Even other intelligent creatures that surely make their own decisions choose to take their preordained path. This path leads them to a happy meaningful existence. If solar systems didn't go along their path they wouldn't sustain life as we know it. We are the only beings that we know of that go against our destiny just because we can.
Fix't for you.
Quote:You threaten of deep water to a fish, for my vast understanding has only come after vast pain that I thrive in and relish. Please, free me, let me show you the ways not right. Threats are absolutely useless.
Uh what? Try making sense first of all and second, what "threats" are you referring to? That's a pretty serious accusation to make, if you are indeed making one.
Quote:I am generally respectful and don't take kindly to worthless threats. What I'm tryin to say is act or shut the fuck up with your negativity.
Again, what threats are these that you speak of? And... Um no. YOU shut the fuck up with your negativity. You came and posted in my thread. Remember?
Quote:The next two things are you acting as if I'm attacking you.
Since when is asking you to answer questions that were asked of you, considered an attack? Instead of answering, we get the "feel free to look it up on blah blah blah" routine. Happens all the time when a theist is put on the spot or is asked something. Sorry, but we aren't here to prove your points for you. If you want us to see your point of view, YOU get to do the homework involved in providing the answers. Not us. You have way too much time on your hands and you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Quote:Fact. Either you have some idea of the truth and do nothing about it which is a shitty existence. Or you are not observant to reality because you are caught up in society, greed, lust, addiction, etc, or oblivious cause uhm... Your dumb
Fact? Given that you don't know me, please provide evidence that shows your statements above, with regards to ME personally, are true. I'll wait. By the way.. I'm not dumb. I've already had to correct your spelling quite a number of times and I won't even begin to correct your grammar let alone the basic fact that some of your posts made ZERO sense. So let's not get into who is dumb here.
Quote:Do you fuckit. He destroyed them so they could reboot basically. Or are you talking about the time before that with the bloodthirsting giants that were mad and eating people and kids? Either way justified as far as I'm concerned. Not going to intercine again because of it.
Ahh... I understand* totally now. Makes perfect sense. *not really, but I'll let you believe it because you're fucking crazy.
Quote:Spence people had written language they have spoken of the right way.
Who the hell are Spence people?
Quote:It's not a coincedence that they are all closely related and many with same names places and events. All that shit must be colwctively made up though right. The splendor of our existence and everything we have the potential to destroy or help is proof. All this didn't happen on it's own. Sorry. Something at least got the ball Rollin. Whatever that is is God. It's not something you see. Well really it is because it is in everything, but the connection really is something you feel.
That is your opinion and not a scientifically proven fact, therefore, you cannot tell anyone else what connections they may or may not feel, are because of some god that no one has ever seen.
Quote:Someone asked about direct intervention. God doesn't necessarily just intervene. He said he would never do that on a large scale again. He gives us the opportunity to make our own fate but has shown us the right direction.
Your free will argument is bullshit. If god was all powerful and put everyone and everything here on the earth, then he has the power to be directly involved. If he was a loving god, he wouldn't allow bad shit to happen. To anyone. Period. But since there has yet to be one shred of evidence in favor of his existence, it's really easy to see why we don't believe.
Quote:Once again, he gave us the earth and all things on it. Including the opportunity to fuck up or become great.
That is, again your opinion, which you have a right to. But it is not a fact.
Quote:Ass.
Aww.. how cute. You called me an ass.
Quote:I don't know what your problem is exactly and I really don't care. You obviously have a lot of problems.
My problem lies with those theists who try to come in here, push their agendas and preach. But since you don't care... nor do I care about how you feel. Bugger off fool. And no, I don't have a lot of problems. But you make a lot of assumptions based on your lack of knowledge about who I am.
Quote:The one Lord could help but I'm sure that's the last thing you want to hear.
This is the only point you are spot on about. No. I don't want to hear about some magical sky daddy "helping" me because when I was a theist, struggling for years, he didn't help me then. Now that I know there's never been any scientific proof to point to his existence, I no longer feel the need to anticipate that some non-existent being will help. I firmly and rightly rely on my own damn self and my own damn hard work because being actively involved in solving one's problems is the ONLY way they get solved. Prayer doesn't do shit.
Quote:You don't consider your internal turmoil a he'll of sorts, or at least really strong evidence that something is wrong?
What internal turmoil do you speak of? If there is any internal turmoil, it surely isn't "hell" because no such place exists for me. Strong evidence that something is wrong? What exactly would that be? [/quote]
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
(July 2, 2015 at 3:00 am)Judi Lynn Wrote: Loves his people?
It is the kind of love you cannot possibly understand because you are not delusional and you have not been indoctrinated by a belief system that by any logical standard is veritably defined as insane.
Thanks for clearing that up! I feel so much better now. I think.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
(July 2, 2015 at 7:53 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Ah, the classic argument from ignorance, or the "God of the Gaps" fallacy. We don't know what's responsible for X, therefore god, right?
Wrong! The fact is that your statement should stop with "we don't know." Any time you go beyond that and say "so it must be x," you're actually just speculating and arguing from ignorance. You've already postulated that you don't know because you don't have enough information to know, so how will you now then turn around and postulate an answer that is based on...what, your lack of knowledge? Lack of evidence? What, then, is the justification for believing your claim?
Since you've established that nobody else you know believes like you do, the simple fact is that you have made up your own god, which no one can corroborate except you and which you cannot corroborate with evidence. "We're here and must have come from somewhere, therefore god" is not evidence, nor does it even qualify as a legitimate argument.
If that's how you're proving god to yourself, your standard of evidence is just not very high. Anyone can tell themselves anything they want; that doesn't make it true.
If you were really an atheist for 25 years and then decided to find religion...what can I say? You fucked up. You had it right, and then you fucked it up. Why would you do that? My guess is that you didn't have a logical basis for your beliefs before, and so it didn't take much to change them. I guess it's true what they say...if you don't stand on something solid, you really will fall for anything.
Listen, we don't ask much. All we want is one fact. One measly little fact that isn't a 2,000+ year old alleged miracle. Not apologetics, not a bunch of bullshit logical circles and hypothetical hoop-jumping...just one measly shred of observable evidence. That's all. The fact that theists can't produce it is telling, to say the least.
I'm sorry but how in the fuck would you scientifically prove something that science can't even begin to answer? And get this you fuck; I know what the fuck I know because I was shone. The Lord had mercy on me. It's that ducking simple. I have had a close relationship with our being ever since. You have no clue. Existence is our God. The fucking opporrunity to reign over all things that we observe. What, that was just from some dust? No fucking way are we so fucking privileged to just happen to be here with the greatness we have just cuz. Are you so fucking shallow that you can't understand that science can't define or even remotely interpret some things? Science is a tool for understanding things. It breaks things down into smaller pieces. How are you going to break something down that isn't material?
Get your head out of your ass.
(July 2, 2015 at 7:53 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Ah, the classic argument from ignorance, or the "God of the Gaps" fallacy. We don't know what's responsible for X, therefore god, right?
Wrong! The fact is that your statement should stop with "we don't know." Any time you go beyond that and say "so it must be x," you're actually just speculating and arguing from ignorance. You've already postulated that you don't know because you don't have enough information to know, so how will you now then turn around and postulate an answer that is based on...what, your lack of knowledge? Lack of evidence? What, then, is the justification for believing your claim?
Since you've established that nobody else you know believes like you do, the simple fact is that you have made up your own god, which no one can corroborate except you and which you cannot corroborate with evidence. "We're here and must have come from somewhere, therefore god" is not evidence, nor does it even qualify as a legitimate argument.
If that's how you're proving god to yourself, your standard of evidence is just not very high. Anyone can tell themselves anything they want; that doesn't make it true.
If you were really an atheist for 25 years and then decided to find religion...what can I say? You fucked up. You had it right, and then you fucked it up. Why would you do that? My guess is that you didn't have a logical basis for your beliefs before, and so it didn't take much to change them. I guess it's true what they say...if you don't stand on something solid, you really will fall for anything.
Listen, we don't ask much. All we want is one fact. One measly little fact that isn't a 2,000+ year old alleged miracle. Not apologetics, not a bunch of bullshit logical circles and hypothetical hoop-jumping...just one measly shred of observable evidence. That's all. The fact that theists can't produce it is telling, to say the least.
You are the one who doesn't know. I assure you.
^^^^^
The lord must have been using a very dim bulb when he shone you. In the old days people he shone things to wrote fairy tales about their experiences and started religions based upon them. It doesn't seem that you are measuring up to their standard of BS. Give us the latest revelation from the lord.
Advising me to carefully tread water, that I could drown in, to me, is a threat.
It wasn't ever my intention to personally attack you and I wish it wouldn't have come to that level. I was using excessive profanity and foolishly addreeing all yesterday because I was fed up. It was nothing personal. I'm not trying to shove my beliefs down your throat, it indeed would be to much to swallow. I'm sure you believe in some sort of higher power. It is up to you, you are right about that, but the Lord van guide and strengthen, and help to see. Any way you don't need my acceptance, nor does anyone else. If I messed up your thread, it wasn't intentional. I thought I was at least somewhat within the subject matter. I understand that you fight your own battles. You seem to be at a slight distance from society yourself, also a good thing. Don't look for "God"
Look for the truth in feeling and emotion. Eventually you'll find your answers.
Thanks for being an individual. Good luck.
(July 2, 2015 at 2:00 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Are you sure you want me to search in tapatalk?
Google gives me a bunch of forums where your username is active... Why don't you show me the text you mean where you have it all laid out?
I don't know exactly where it is. It's scattered a little. You could find it with tapatalk. Sorry wish I knew exactly which threads.
Considering the huge reply you did to someone else in this thread.... maybe you could repeat your description of the experience, here?
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
