(July 10, 2015 at 7:34 pm)Cato Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 4:06 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: The following Bible verse is relevant and one which I believe to be an instructive reply:

1 John 2:16 "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

Whoever wrote this was a fucking idiot.

(July 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm)Cato Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think either of those 2 things is moral.  

Why would anyone consider masturbation immoral? Where's the victim?

God is the victim. He just don't like it.

(July 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think either of those 2 things is moral.  

Personally, I think porn is worse than masturbation (this is just my opinion, since the Church doesn't officially "rank" them). I can see how masturbation can be an easy thing to fall into especially during the teenage years when hormones are raging, and I tend to think culpability is greatly lessened due to having such strong natural urges at an age where self control is more difficult. I think porn, on the other hand, is more immoral for a few other reasons, especially because it involves another person.

No, I do not watch porn. This isn't even a temptation for me since I don't like it at all anyway.
I haven't done "the other thing" in a fairly long time, but would be lying if I said I never have. But I am happily married so I imagine it must be easier for me to avoid it now.

(For the record, Islam is also vehemently against both those things)

Porn, I can maybe sort of see, but why is masturbation immoral? I understand the church teaches so, but why?

This is a good question. Just to warn you, the answer will not make any sense to people who do not have the same views regarding sexuality.

Since sex is the act that brings forth new human life, and human life is sacred, we consider sex to be a very sacred thing. Like all sacred things, it should be guarded and protected. Not exploited, used carelessly, or used outside of a sacred context. We believe this sacred act is reserved for the expression of commitment and self giving love of a husband and wife. In masturbation, not only are you using sexuality outside of its sacred context, but you are taking something that is meant to be self giving and using it on your own self rather than as a self gift for the one you love.

The priest at my Catholic Student Association in college always said that it is something that we should all keep praying about and trying our best to avoid, but that feeling overly guilty every time we failed would only make us drive ourselves further away from God in frustration. Since it is such a strong urge for teenagers and young adults, or anyone who is not yet married, it is an issue that has to be dealt with very delicately and in an understanding manner. Putting guilt on people is not the way to go.

(Since I know this is going to be brought up: No, I am not saying the only purpose of sex is to procreate lol. I know it is not. I am saying that it is STILL the act that brings forth new human life. Even if it serves other purposes, it is still that act.)

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(July 10, 2015 at 7:42 pm)Cato Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Ninja'd by Cato

Hahaha!!

Fuck all that shit. If your deity has that big of a problem with human nature then he should take it up with the manufacturer... oh.

(July 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm)Cato Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think either of those 2 things is moral.  

Why would anyone consider masturbation immoral? Where's the victim?

Because of that "objective" morality handed down by gawd.

(July 10, 2015 at 8:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: you are taking something that is meant to be self giving and using it on your own self rather than as a self gift for the one you love.

So, what about mutual masturbation for the viewing pleasure of the other? Is that out as well? After all, it's still something that's "self giving," as you put it.

(July 10, 2015 at 9:16 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 8:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: you are taking something that is meant to be self giving and using it on your own self rather than as a self gift for the one you love.

So, what about mutual masturbation for the viewing pleasure of the other? Is that out as well? After all, it's still something that's "self giving," as you put it.

No, that is moral.

It is being used in the context of self giving love between husband and wife to "set the mood" and make it a more enjoyable experience. Nothing wrong with that.

One of your popes disagrees.

Quote:Pope Paul VI: "The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life." (Humanae Vitae, n. 11-12.)

(July 10, 2015 at 9:42 pm)Minimalist Wrote: One of your popes disagrees.

Quote:Pope Paul VI: "The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life." (Humanae Vitae, n. 11-12.)

I am familiar with Humanae Vitae. This phrase just means that contraception is not moral.

A couple can do mutual masturbation and put on "shows" for each other during foreplay all they want.

(July 10, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 12:28 pm)Atheist_BG Wrote: I wonder what do the theists here think about masturbation and porn? Christianity defines these as deadly sins, altough there are no commandments specifying one shouldn't bash the bishop or watch other people getting laid. I don't know what Islam says about that, if anything.

Do you watch porn and do you practice the other thing? This is your chance to confess and I promise I'll order god not to punish you!

I don't think either of those 2 things is moral.  

Personally, I think porn is worse than masturbation (this is just my opinion, since the Church doesn't officially "rank" them). I can see how masturbation can be an easy thing to fall into especially during the teenage years when hormones are raging, and I tend to think culpability is greatly lessened due to having such strong natural urges at an age where self control is more difficult. I think porn, on the other hand, is more immoral for a few other reasons, especially because it involves another person.

No, I do not watch porn. This isn't even a temptation for me since I don't like it at all anyway.
I haven't done "the other thing" in a fairly long time, but would be lying if I said I never have. But I am happily married so I imagine it must be easier for me to avoid it now.

(For the record, Islam is also vehemently against both those things)

In a monogamous, life-time intending relationship you owe it to your partner to be competent at sex.  If you don't even take care to learn what works for you, what can you possibly bring to the relationship?  If you permit yourself to enjoy sex for its own sake while assiduously timing it to avoid procreation, why not permit yourself the 'practice' which could improve love making with your spouse.

(July 10, 2015 at 9:57 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(July 10, 2015 at 7:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think either of those 2 things is moral.  

Personally, I think porn is worse than masturbation (this is just my opinion, since the Church doesn't officially "rank" them). I can see how masturbation can be an easy thing to fall into especially during the teenage years when hormones are raging, and I tend to think culpability is greatly lessened due to having such strong natural urges at an age where self control is more difficult. I think porn, on the other hand, is more immoral for a few other reasons, especially because it involves another person.

No, I do not watch porn. This isn't even a temptation for me since I don't like it at all anyway.
I haven't done "the other thing" in a fairly long time, but would be lying if I said I never have. But I am happily married so I imagine it must be easier for me to avoid it now.

(For the record, Islam is also vehemently against both those things)

In a monogamous, life-time intending relationship you owe it to your partner to be competent at sex.  If you don't even take care to learn what works for you, what can you possibly bring to the relationship?  If you permit yourself to enjoy sex for its own sake while assiduously timing it to avoid procreation, why not permit yourself the 'practice' which could improve love making with your spouse.

Can't we just practice better love making by making love? Lol. Do we have to practice it by masturbating alone?