I love watching 2 xtians argue about which pile of trash smells worse.

(October 14, 2010 at 1:13 am)Minimalist Wrote:


I love watching 2 xtians argue about which pile of trash smells worse.

Me too. They can't both be right.... but they can both be wrong

(October 13, 2010 at 11:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: It,s not cherry picking some of the OT laws do not apply to christianity as a matter of fact they were given to show the need of Christ as savior. Adam and Eve could not keep the only law given them and no one has ever keep all the 10 commandments, we're a pretty sorry lot.

John 1:1-5 These verses tell us that Christ was with the Father in the begining and that all things were made through Him. (Jesus was there at the start of creation)

Genesis 1:1-3 These verses tell us that the Father and Holy Spirit were present at the begining. Those eight verses show the Trinity has always been.

Genesis 3:22 God says,"Behold the man has become like us knowing good and evil. Here God the Father refers to the Son and Holy Spirit.

Ok, let me deal with your scripture. First off, John is NT. So him saying that Christ was with God in the beginning is a simple case of retcon. He could also have written that in the beginning God had a dog, but the OT doesn't say that he did. Anything from the NT that tries to rewrite the OT is not admissible.

Genesis 1 - this is just the christian interpretation. Could it be that the spirit of god is simply a reference to his spirit, not a separate entity? Otherwise you could also then say the brain of god, or the heart of god is also part of the multipart god (assuming he has a brain or heart). I'm sure the Jews do not have this interpretation of this passage, and remember, it was their book first.... but actually, as Christianity grew out of Judaism then really you should have the same interpretation.

Genesis 3 - yes, i love this one. This also links in nicely with "you shall have no other gods before me" the plural usage of god (Gods - Elohim) in the OT, and other reference that imply, Yahweh is not alone, which fits in nicely with historical evidence that prior to Judaism's evolution Yahweh was a lesser deity of a larger pantheon. I'm very happy to agree with you that God is not alone.... but this does not imply that there are 3 gods that are in reality one god.

Remember, out ancestors invented polytheism much earlier than monotheism. Yahweh as a singular god came onto the scene quite later in the evolution of religion and he came from a pantheon, which explains a lot of the pluralism in the OT regarding god(s). What Christianity actually did with the whole idea of the trinity was a step backwards towards polythesim, and Catholicism took it even a step further by raising Mary to a level of importance that borders on hubris, in effect she is almost (or more) powerful than the Jesus component of God because people pray to her to intercede with her son... who is also the father... and it all gets a little confusing.

Anyway... this is going off-topic... sorry, why can/can't Christians ignore the OT laws?

Yeah, Yahweh seems to have been a fairly minor god in the Canaanite pantheon and may have been a local deity in Judah or at least the desert regions of the south. When Jerusalem grew around the 8th century BCE he may have gotten a promotion.

http://alkman1.blogspot.com/2007/01/cana...theon.html

Quote:YAHWEH: Yahweh is added here because there was a short time in which He was simply part of the Canaanite pantheon. He was a Son of El; and he was part of the court of El as cupbearer along with Baal. Later, as the National God of Israel, Yahweh was equated with El, and Asherah became His wife.

(October 13, 2010 at 11:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: The Bible is for instruction, you do not erase things just because they are no longer used.

Laws that are "no longer used" DO get erased from the law books. Otherwise our law books would be filled with thousands of repealed laws.

Quote: I have a question for you Thor, if the laws are removed from the law books then how is it we know of them?

What a stupid question. We know about laws that have been removed because there are historical records detailing when the law was put into effect and when it was repealed. And I don't get what point you're trying to make here.

Quote:Thor ask a question about OT law and let,s see if we can find an answer. The answer we find may not be to your liking, that does not make it any less true.

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"Truth" and the Bible go together like spaghetti and chocolate sauce. You want a question about the OT? Okay, where does the Bible tells us that the OT laws no longer apply?

(October 13, 2010 at 11:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: It,s not cherry picking some of the OT laws do not apply to christianity as a matter of fact they were given to show the need of Christ as savior. Adam and Eve could not keep the only law given them and no one has ever keep all the 10 commandments, we're a pretty sorry lot.

John 1:1-5 These verses tell us that Christ was with the Father in the begining and that all things were made through Him. (Jesus was there at the start of creation)

Genesis 1:1-3 These verses tell us that the Father and Holy Spirit were present at the begining. Those eight verses show the Trinity has always been.

Genesis 3:22 God says,"Behold the man has become like us knowing good and evil. Here God the Father refers to the Son and Holy Spirit.

The ancient Hebrews were polytheistic. I don't know if you noticed that Yahweh's curious habit of referring to himself by the royal we abruptly ended after Genesis.

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(October 14, 2010 at 3:19 am)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah, Yahweh seems to have been a fairly minor god in the Canaanite pantheon and may have been a local deity in Judah or at least the desert regions of the south. When Jerusalem grew around the 8th century BCE he may have gotten a promotion.

NonStampCollecter (YouTube) needs to do a video on Yahweh's story of his rise from rags to riches. He had his modest start as a small member of a pantheon of some insignificant tribe, bullied by the other gods with much cooler names (ZEUS! ... RA! ... ODIN! ...(nerd voice) Yahweh), he rose to become the sole owner of the biggest religion franchise in the world.

There is an Egyptian reference to a Yah who was a god of the Midianites or some other shitty desert tribe. I'll have to go looking for it. It might be in one my (shudder) books.

(October 12, 2010 at 11:07 am)Thor Wrote: I love it when I point out absurd laws in the Bible and Christians want to tell me that I am talking about "Mosaic Law" and that doesn't apply any more.

I then challenge them to show me where in the book it says that these laws "don't apply any more".

I also ask, "Well, if these laws don't apply any more, then why are they still in the book?" (After all, when we repeal laws they are removed from the law books!)

I have yet to receive a reasonable answer to either question.

Ditto: History Thor history. Does this make sense to you, a historical account of the Jewish nation.

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(October 14, 2010 at 1:13 am)Minimalist Wrote:


I love watching 2 xtians argue about which pile of trash smells worse.

I'm not arguing a point I'm asking questions, then there might be a discussion arise about the answers given. Why would you expect christians to differ on certain things. I see evolutionist argue over their interpertation of bones and I see that as persons trying to get at a reasonable explanation. Historians continuely argue over dates and evidence, why should christians be any different. I know you like to believe we have all been brain washed to see everything the same way, surprise we do not. Because God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent we have a difficult time in understanding many aspects of Him so there will be differences in our views, this in no way means we are trying to tear each other down, we are trying to understand who He is. I have come to a better understanding of God from other denominations, I,m Southern Baptist and some of my views of God differ greatly from my denomination, that doesn't mean I've discovered something they have not because I could be wrong and I will keep searching until I come into His presence and then I will see clearly.

Um...because you both read the same stupid book and think it says different things.

(October 14, 2010 at 2:05 am)Loki_999 Wrote: [quote='Minimalist' pid='99157' dateline='1287033186']



I love watching 2 xtians argue about which pile of trash smells worse.

Me too. They can't both be right.... but they can both be wrong

Loki_999 Wrote:Ok, let me deal with your scripture. First off, John is NT. So him saying that Christ was with God in the beginning is a simple case of retcon. He could also have written that in the beginning God had a dog, but the OT doesn't say that he did. Anything from the NT that tries to rewrite the OT is not admissible.

Genesis 1 - this is just the christian interpretation. Could it be that the spirit of god is simply a reference to his spirit, not a separate entity? Otherwise you could also then say the brain of god, or the heart of god is also part of the multipart god (assuming he has a brain or heart). I'm sure the Jews do not have this interpretation of this passage, and remember, it was their book first.... but actually, as Christianity grew out of Judaism then really you should have the same interpretation.

Genesis 3 - yes, i love this one. This also links in nicely with "you shall have no other gods before me" the plural usage of god (Gods - Elohim) in the OT, and other reference that imply, Yahweh is not alone, which fits in nicely with historical evidence that prior to Judaism's evolution Yahweh was a lesser deity of a larger pantheon. I'm very happy to agree with you that God is not alone.... but this does not imply that there are 3 gods that are in reality one god.

Remember, out ancestors invented polytheism much earlier than monotheism. Yahweh as a singular god came onto the scene quite later in the evolution of religion and he came from a pantheon, which explains a lot of the pluralism in the OT regarding god(s). What Christianity actually did with the whole idea of the trinity was a step backwards towards polythesim, and Catholicism took it even a step further by raising Mary to a level of importance that borders on hubris, in effect she is almost (or more) powerful than the Jesus component of God because people pray to her to intercede with her son... who is also the father... and it all gets a little confusing.

Anyway... this is going off-topic... sorry, why can/can't Christians ignore the OT laws?

You asked for scriptures, you did not specify OT or NT so all the verses I used are relevant. You're trying to limit the facts as given in scripture. The OT and NT are one book in christianity and that is what this is about. God is not only God to the Jews He is God to all that believe. You are flawed in your thinking, the way you think would negate any new laws from being written and if you think you are correct then you and Thor need to have a discussion.
The Jews had Jesus put to death because He called Himself the Son of God And Jesus told His disciples that He had to return to the Father so the Helper (Holy Spirit) could come, in this one statement the Trinity is made visible. When Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit desended upon Him and the Father said this is My Son in whom I Am is well pleased, another example of the Trinity. Jesus also told His disciples that the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God, He did not mean this was just Gods spirit Jesus meant that the Holy Spirit would interact with man to help him know the will of God. Jesus also told His disciples that He and the Father were as One. If you like I will look up and post all the passages, I do not believe I need to you seem to know that they are in scriptures. This is alot of scripture statements that show the three persons of the One true God and yes they are three seperate persons of the God of creation. As for the OT it's the foretelling of Christ, I'm not sure how anyone could deny the Trinity.
Catholicism is wrong in elevating Mary to such a high place, Jesus in His time on earth did not hint that this was to happen. Catholicism has broken the commandment not to worship any other gods.
The Son is not the Father, Jesus said that the Father is the only one who knows the exact time of His (Jesus) return, if Jesus was the Father He would also know this and He said He did not also the Holy Spirit does not know the exact time of Jesus return, more good evidence that there are three persons that are one God. I agree the Trinity is a hard thing to understand.
Christians should not ignor the OT there are many valuable lessons to be learned, there's so much that helps us to understand God. The OT is what the disciples used to preach about Jesus in their ministries, it was their proof of His coming and many people were converted because of the OT wittness to Christ. If you want I can show you scriptures of why, not all the OT applies to christians. It's late so I'll look for your reply this weekend.

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(October 15, 2010 at 1:14 am)Minimalist Wrote: Um...because you both read the same stupid book and think it says different things.

And evolutionist look at the same stupid fossil and think it's two, three, four and more different things.