(July 20, 2015 at 2:29 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: TO YOU.

Fucking christ. What, exactly specifically do you mean by making fun of your beliefs? Does scrutiny fall under that? Does pointing out their irrationality?

Depends on how it's done. Simply scrutinizing and pointing out what you think is irrational, is not making fun.

Mocking, teasing, laughing at me about them is making fun.

And you mean, IRL, of course...not here, right?

(July 20, 2015 at 2:32 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(July 20, 2015 at 2:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How would you feel about it if a religious friend of yours was constantly on your butt about your atheism?

I wouldn't be friends with them.

Quote:Wouldn't you feel it's none of their business and not their place to keep bugging you about it?

No, it's not that. It's that they're wrong. You keep talking like this is an equivalent thing. Oh I have my beliefs and you have yours. No, it isn't like that. Fact is, if one of my friends believed in bullshit, I would call them out on it every single time they brought it up. I wouldn't pester them incessantly, it's not exactly top of my to do list, but if I was actually friends with someone who believed in god, and I respected them, I'd absolutely call them out and I'd have no qualms being mean about it. Then again, I don't think I have any friends who are so sensitive that they couldn't take it.

And you keep using this bullshit analogy with clothing. It's not even remotely the same thing. Fashion is about nothing more than opinions,  someone believing in bullshit is about a whole lot more. There's the actual aspect of whether they're right, whether what they believe makes any sense, whether what they believe is poisonous, whether what they believe is childish.

I take the piss out of my mates all the time for trivial shit. If they're being a dickhead I'll call them one. IMO that's what a real friend does. We don't all live in this pussy world that you do where you're scared of upsetting your friends by ridiculing them, over here it's called banter. Sometimes it's harsh, sometimes it's just in jest, but a lot of the time there's real truth to it. I don't know, maybe it's a cultural thing, I know all of my friends would call me a stupid cunt back if I called them one. They certainly wouldn't cry and whine about it like you are now.

Quote:What I'm saying is that it's the same thing the other way around. You would be doing the exact same thing if you kept bugging someone about their theism.

It's just plain not. One side of the argument has facts, and evidence, the otherside has wishy washy thinking. Ain't no friend of mine gonna be walking about a zombified numpty.

Both sides feel the other is wrong, and they are right.

The important thing is to respect despite our differences....

IMHO, Whateverist.

(July 20, 2015 at 2:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Mocking, teasing, laughing at me about them is making fun.

Do you really get so hurt that someone laughs at your beliefs? That they would even tease you? It doesn't sound to me like you're very secure in such beliefs if you'd actually get that upset with someone over it.

I don't feel the need to be grateful to a being that you claim, created us, without our consent, mind you. Then, told us we were born into sin, because some morons ate fruit from a tree. Then, tells us we were unworthy of him, while he commits/condones the most disgusting acts imaginable. Then, in his classic, megalomaniacal character, he can’t forgive us for the things he created us to do in the first place, so he has to impregnate a virgin, then have her son get killed (which wouldn’t be fair to her) in a horrific manner, in order for god, to forgive us. Sounds like an asshole, if you actually think about it. I don’t want a psychopath’s version of redemption. You seriously want to worship this monster? I don’t know how any thinking person, could stick up for a god like this. The only reason to do so, would be out of fear, as far as I can see.

(July 20, 2015 at 2:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: And you mean, IRL, of course...not here, right?

Like I said a couple posts back. I still think it's not cool to make fun of a person here. My opinion.

So, if someone takes it upon themselves to express their belief in the fallen nature of all men, perhaps even the vileness of gays...the important thing......the really important thing, is to respect our differences? This certainly seems to be a convenient summary for the faithful and their institutions, but I'm not sure what good it does the rest of us.

(July 20, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(July 20, 2015 at 2:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Mocking, teasing, laughing at me about them is making fun.

Do you really get so hurt that someone laughs at your beliefs? That they would even tease you? It doesn't sound to me like you're very secure in such beliefs if you'd actually get that upset with someone over it.

If it was a good friend of mine, I would be hurt but I wouldn't stop being their friend. If it was someone else, I would think it was rude but I wouldn't be sad or anything.

(July 20, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Now to address your "separating what people think about religion from what they think about you", here's what I think.

Let's say I think Ugg boots are the most hideous, ridiculous article of clothing I have ever seen. Not only that, but I think they are also bad because they use wool from sheep who are treated very very badly.

Let's say I have a friend who loves them and wears them ALL the time.

Should me thinking Ugg boots are awful be offenssive to her? Obviously not.

Should it be offensive to her if I sat down with her and respectfully told her I think they just don't look good on her and I'm against them because they are attached to inhumane treatment of animals? Also, no.

But if I pointed at her, and laughed, and said some nasty stuff like "why the hell are you wearing those God awful f---ing boots?? They look ridiculous, and apparently you're ok with the mistreatment of animals, which makes me sick!"

If she got offended by this, would it be reasonable for me to say "Hey, what's your problem?? I wasn't making fun of you, just your clothes!"

This makes perfect sense.  But I'd be likely to respond differently (than the part bolded) if she is really a good friend of mine and the poor treatment of animals thing really bothered me a lot.  At first I'd simply tell her what I understood about the way the sheep were treated where those boots were made.  If she continued to wear them when we met I'd up my game.  Rather than lose her number or decide her apparent indifference to my fellow creatures was alright I'd probably nudge her with little barbed verbal jabs.  I might, for example, occasionally ask her if she heard it too.  When she asked me what, I'd say I keep hearing the screaming of lambs and then look wistfully at her boots.  After that, assuming I still liked her, it might just become an occasional joke between us.  I might pretend to be hearing something but then carry on without an overt comment.  I might look at her boots and wince.  But it wouldn't be a nonstop sort of thing.  Just an occasional nudge whenever the thought "how can it be that .." crossed my mind.  Otherwise I'd just go on enjoying what I liked about her to begin with and let it go.

(July 20, 2015 at 2:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So, if someone takes it upon themselves to express their belief in the fallen nature of all men, perhaps even the vileness of gays...the important thing......the really important thing, is to respect our differences?

Well it wouldn't be very respectful on their part if they just came out and started saying that in a setting where doing so wouldn't be appropriate.

I've never met anyone who thinks gay people are vile.