(July 25, 2015 at 6:29 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: (July 25, 2015 at 3:31 pm)MTL Wrote: SamS,
I hear the sincerity of your query,
but, as someone who was raised with Christianity and found her way, on her own, through logical thought, to Agnosticism,
my reply is not meant to be antagonistic, but nonetheless is a resounding "No".
The more I examine religion, Christianity included, the more poorly it stands up to scrutiny.
It is a personal connection. Not traditional religion. No middle man. No church. No dealing with hypocrites.
I know you weren't talking to me. I was just sayin.
I'm not absolutely sure I'm interpreting your position correctly, so permit me to request clarification:
I think what you are saying, is this:
You are Christian....?
...and you are of the opinion that Christianity is not a "traditional religion"
so much as a "personal relationship" with Jesus....?
...and this is BECAUSE you claim that it is exists WITHOUT need of a church or organization;
without need of fellowship with your "hypocrite" fellow self-professed Christians?
Is that correct?
If that is what you are saying,
then my objection is this:
1. You say you have a "personal connection" with God/Jesus;
yet I personally sought that same connection for many years, to no avail.
The Bible promised me
that if I that if I Sought, I would Find,
if I Asked, I would Receive,
if I Knocked, the door would be Opened unto me,
...and that didn't happen.
I listened carefully for the "still, small voice"
....and didn't hear it.
(I chose to disregard a few poignant little coincidences as "signs", rather than deceive myself, too...
...Because I think if your own good sense tells you that a "sign" may be a subjective thing,
then it is NOT from a lack of humility, or a lack of faith,
to choose to use the brain God gave you, as it were,
and refrain from telling yourself what you'd LIKE to believe.
God is, after all, said to be synonymous with TRUTH
....not self-deception).
So,
I am sitting her telling you that I have sought, as hard as I could,
and did not find. And I was heartbroken.
So, please tell me,
why should I believe that you actually found the connection that I sought so desperately and failed to discover?
When I personally know how earnestly I sought,
and did not find,
WHY should I, personally,
fail to believe that you were simply willing to deceive yourself, where I was not?
And please, do NOT trot out the stock Christian answer that the fault lays with me and I simply "wasn't really interested in finding God, yet" or something equally offensive, ignorant, or presumptuous. For all you know, I may have sought God with far more desperation than you ever did, and with more integrity.
So, please refrain from accusing me of being unrepentant or unwilling to find Jesus...I've heard that arrogant reply, too many times.
2. It is eyeroll-inducing for me, when Christians attempt to state that simply because they feel a "connection"
that for this reason, Christianity is somehow, therefore, not a "traditional religion" and is therefore somehow different from all other religions.
There are Jews and Muslims and other religious groups who claim the exact same thing.
Christianity is absolutely a religion,
your claim of a "personal connection" notwithstanding,
because it has DOGMA, it has a specific belief structure about something unknown and unprovable,
a concept of "Sin" that is fairly absolute,
a definite promise of Heaven or Hell,
and a book which claims, but cannot be proven, to be the Inspired Word of God.
Also,
it is more than a mere "Belief",
(a mere BELIEF can exist within an individual....with no requirement that it be shared with anyone else).
But it progresses beyond mere BELIEF,
into being a bona fide RELIGION,
when you share,
with OTHER PEOPLE,
your claims of a "connection"
...and pass off a set of unsubstantiated theories
AS IF they are undisputed facts.
And forgive me,
but I think if I was sitting alone in my house one day,
and suddenly the Lord appeared to me
....and I found myself awash in ecstasy, awe, a great sense of tranquility, well-being, and enlightenment, all at once....
....I think I would not feel the need to tell others about that experience.
In fact, I'd make a point of keeping it to myself,
Because I would think that the supernatural experience of being in God's Presence
would make any human laugh at the idea that they were accomplishing a damn thing
by telling other humans about it;
Because it would have been demonstrated to my satisfaction that nothing I could say or do
could improve in any way upon God's ability to reach people who want to be reached;
and because I'd know that,
in claiming I'd had such an experience,
I would likely only succeed in making people think that, in fact,
the exact OPPOSITE was true:
That I had NO such experience,
but if I can convince OTHERS that I did,
it will help me to convince MYSELF, too...
....just like choosing to deceive yourself and belief in "signs" that are subjective.
