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What would you consider to be evidence for God?
RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
That's one thing that gets on my nerves a lot. Some Christians expect you to give god credit for everything.

Got a job? God helped!
Found your keys? God helped!
Lost weight? That was god!
Won a football game? you guessed it! God did it.

Something bad happens though, and it's not god's fault. Malaria? Not god's fault. Starvation? Not god's fault. Apparently he has time to help people find their keys, make dresses go on sale, and tell people which car to buy, but not enough time to prevent hunger. He's much like his followers in that way.

If god wants all this credit, then he should expect to be tested before he gets ANY of the credit.
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
(August 30, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Cecelia Wrote: That's one thing that gets on my nerves a lot.  Some Christians expect you to give god credit for everything.

Got a job?  God helped!
Found your keys?  God helped!
Lost weight?  That was god!
Won a football game?  you guessed it!  God did it.

Something bad happens though, and it's not god's fault.   Malaria?  Not god's fault.  Starvation?  Not god's fault.  Apparently he has time to help people find their keys, make dresses go on sale, and tell people which car to buy, but not enough time to prevent hunger.  He's much like his followers in that way.

If god wants all this credit, then he should expect to be tested before he gets ANY of the credit.

There was an interesting incident on the news a few years ago, there had been a mining accident and many men were trapped. reports came back to the families that the men were alive. The families went around praising god and thanking god being very demonstrative.
The reports were wrong.
All the men were dead.
Silence.
Even if the men had survived it would have been down to the efforts of brave rescue teams and not some impossible creature that no-one has ever seen.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
At best you'll get people saying "God called them home."

You know the whole thing about "God works in mysterious ways". Yeah, not in the bible. Same as Algernon Sidney's quote "God helps those who help themselves"

Makes you wonder just how many people actually read their Bibles. I know when I was a believer, I never did.
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
(August 30, 2015 at 2:14 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(August 30, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Cecelia Wrote: That's one thing that gets on my nerves a lot.  Some Christians expect you to give god credit for everything.

Got a job?  God helped!
Found your keys?  God helped!
Lost weight?  That was god!
Won a football game?  you guessed it!  God did it.

Something bad happens though, and it's not god's fault.   Malaria?  Not god's fault.  Starvation?  Not god's fault.  Apparently he has time to help people find their keys, make dresses go on sale, and tell people which car to buy, but not enough time to prevent hunger.  He's much like his followers in that way.

If god wants all this credit, then he should expect to be tested before he gets ANY of the credit.

There was an interesting incident on the news a few years ago, there had been a mining accident and many men were trapped. reports came back to the families that the men were alive. The families went around praising god and thanking god being very demonstrative.
The reports were wrong.
All the men were dead.
Silence.
Even if the men had survived it would have been down to the efforts of brave rescue teams and not some impossible creature that no-one has ever seen.
That reminds me of the quip of Diagoras "the Atheist." Cicero tells it (through his character Cotta) in the dialogue he composed around 45/44 BC, De Natura Deorum (On the Nature of the Gods):
Quote:It may be urged that sometimes the good come to good ends. Yes, and upon these we seize, and attribute them without any reason to the immortal gods. But when Diagoras, he who is called the Atheist, having come to Samothrace, was asked by one of his friends whether he who thought that the gods were careless of human affairs, did not perceive from so many painted tablets how many there were whose vows had enabled them to escape the fury of the storm, and to make their way safe into port, “That is so,” he replied, “because there are no pictures anywhere of those who have been shipwrecked and have perished in the sea”.
250-300 years later, Diogenes Laertius, unsure if the anecdote originated with Diogenes the Cynic or Diagoras, stated it as follows:
Quote:When some one expressed astonishment at the votive offerings in Samothrace, his comment was, "There would have been far more, if those who were not saved had set up offerings."
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
(August 30, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Cecelia Wrote: That's one thing that gets on my nerves a lot.  Some Christians expect you to give god credit for everything.

Got a job?  God helped!
Found your keys?  God helped!
Lost weight?  That was god!
Won a football game?  you guessed it!  God did it.

Something bad happens though, and it's not god's fault.   Malaria?  Not god's fault.  Starvation?  Not god's fault.  Apparently he has time to help people find their keys, make dresses go on sale, and tell people which car to buy, but not enough time to prevent hunger.  He's much like his followers in that way.

If god wants all this credit, then he should expect to be tested before he gets ANY of the credit.

yup.  1/2 truths because they are afraid.  all of us don't need that type of god so I am not a fan of the forceing.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
(August 30, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Cecelia Wrote: That's one thing that gets on my nerves a lot.  Some Christians expect you to give god credit for everything.

Got a job?  God helped!
Found your keys?  God helped!
Lost weight?  That was god!
Won a football game?  you guessed it!  God did it.

Something bad happens though, and it's not god's fault.   Malaria?  Not god's fault.  Starvation?  Not god's fault.  Apparently he has time to help people find their keys, make dresses go on sale, and tell people which car to buy, but not enough time to prevent hunger.  He's much like his followers in that way.

If god wants all this credit, then he should expect to be tested before he gets ANY of the credit.

It always seemed so simple to me to reevaluate these propositions in a different way:

Got a job? What about the person that didn't and possibly needed one more than you?

Found your keys? How about if god improved your brain to where you don't forget where you put them in the first place?

Lost weight? If I ate at a pizza buffet and didn't exercise perhaps.....

Won a football game? What about everyone wanting the other team to win?

This silliness was prevalent in the church I went to, I just didn't want to think this way, it seemed too childish -and biased.

This was what slowly drove a wedge between me and those that thought like this.
Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
Comet wrote"
Quote:or abuse people using logic

Matey, if anyone uses logic on someone, it's technically not "abuse". It's more like "education".
Unless of course it's just Rob dishing it out with his chainsaw! hehe
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
Another proof I would accept is this:

All the Christians in the world (or as many of them as necessary) pray to god to end world hunger, to cure cancer, and all other horrible diseases. Then within one year (I'll give God a year. 7 days to create the earth, but 40 days to write down ten commandments. 365 days should be plenty of time) all diseases are cured and hunger has ended I will accept that as proof for god as well.
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
I would certainly accept that as good evidence towards the existence of something that is listening to Christians, whatever that may be. Whether or not it is what they think it is would remain in question.

I'd be interested in why it didn't do this stuff sooner, and it would be evidence that the thing is not omniscient nor entirely focused on our planet as we had to give a bit shout for attention. Whether or not it mattered that the people were Christians would also be unclear, but maybe a control situation could be set up first with atheist nobheads sneeringly trying it together first.
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RE: What would you consider to be evidence for God?
This God stuff is driving me nuts...

This is how I see it.

In the bad old days, science wasn't advanced enough to understand how the world works.
Today, we can confidently say that even though there many thing we still don't understand, we don't imagine that "anything" can exist or occur without an eventual logical explanation.
The term "God" is a derelict definition, like alchemy, witchcraft, demonic possessions, etc

If our "creator" (assuming ID) did show himself, we will be able to explain the event.
Some "logical" people here still think they need "God" to blink "whatever" into existence to prove himself.
All this does is compound one impossible event into 2 impossible events!

So, yes, I too want our "creator" to pop around and do whatever he thinks he needs to do, my bet is that "it" will be infinitely more intelligent and evolved than that described by goat herders from 2,000 years ago.

Truthfully, I don't even understand why we even entertain "religion's" version of events in a scientific light... I'm imagining it was written as more of a psychological tool than anything else.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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