Why people are religious

[Mystic]

Believing in Quran was not due to it have no problems. So to answer that no. It just became a reason not to reject the Quran and consider it again as a possibility (even though the latter seemed impossible for various subjective reasons at that time to me).

[The Grand Nudger]

Look..both interpretations are the same scenario...it can't have been both a reason to object and a reason to overcome an objection.  Nothing was changed, there was nothing to overcome..and nothing was overcome.  What am I missing? You believe precisely the same thing about that verse as you did before.

[Mystic]

Look..both interpretations are the same scenario...it can't have been both a reason to object and a reason to overcome an objection.  Nothing was changed, there was nothing to overcome..and nothing was overcome.  What am I missing?

Ok. Suppose I claim I'm a Prophet. You ask me ok if you are a Prophet, and you claim ancient Prophets were sent with miracles. Then show me a miracle. I show you a miracle. You then say, well I don't know if it's magic or not, but I will come with my tribe and we will see if you do more miracles. The tribe says only do this and that, we will believe in you and if you don't do it, we won't beleive. Like make a tree walk and then split an half, and one part move towards that direction and another move towards the other direction, without you touching it, this tree, no one but you and us. And then the next day, they come up with more demands. They are meant. Etc, etc. 

Then they start making more demands like they all should be given mansions of gold and be given supply of food from the heaven etc, and then I say, God would of even given to these demands were it not that you rejected the previous demands and miracles.

However I still show more miracles, but on God's terms.

Now take that and take the stance:

Suppose I claim I'm a Prophet. And then you say do a miracle. And I say, no. You say why not? I say because all ancient people rejected the miracles of the Prophets of the past so there is no sense in proving it to you. Does it make sense?

The latter seems like a stupid lame illogical excuse, and can even be proven as such because previous Prophets after previous Prophets it didn't prevent them.

I thought the latter was the only way to interpret the verse. The former seems logical.  The latter seems illogical.

[robvalue]

Old Baby: I know, it's fucking scary. The anti-intellectual, anti-science and anti-reality agendas that often run through religion are downright harmful. Setting your children up with a bullshit version of the world, however well intended, is going to hold them back. And it's going to confuse the hell out of them when they are told it's all crap, and that science actually knows stuff. They then have an inner turmoil between mummy's fantasy world and the nasty, evil lying science mummy warned them about. The evil lying science that powers every aspect of their lives, and keeps them in good health.

Whateverist: When I said I assume a theist's reasons will be illogical, what I meant was the explanation they are going to give me. But almost always, I hear rationalisations and not the real reason. Those rationalizations are bollocks. The person may or may not know they are bollocks, of course. They may have convinced themselves they are good reasons. It's only very rarely I get a snippet of truth, and then it comes down to "I was raised that way". Which is obviously illogical, although understandable. Or the other, even worse one, "I'm scared not to believe".

[Mystic]

Robvalue, you never have the patience to hear the Theist out in my experience. You give up before the conversation even starts.

[robvalue]

Wow. You have got to be kidding me.

Have you any idea how long I've spent trying to make sense of what you say? I'd love to see some evidence of this claim. Please go ahead and highlight the posts. If you're right, I'll apologize to the person/people.

I feel like I give people a very good chance, as long as they are polite. But I'm happy to be shown otherwise.

[The Grand Nudger]

Ok. Suppose I claim I'm a Prophet. You ask me ok if you are a Prophet, and you claim ancient Prophets were sent with miracles. Then show me a miracle. I show you a miracle. You then say, well I don't know if it's magic or not, but I will come with my tribe and we will see if you do more miracles. The tribe says only do this and that, we will believe in you and if you don't do it, we won't beleive. Like make a tree walk and then split an half, and one part move towards that direction and another move towards the other direction, without you touching it, this tree, no one but you and us. And then the next day, they come up with more demands. They are meant. Etc, etc. 

Then they start making more demands like they all should be given mansions of gold and be given supply of food from the heaven etc, and then I say, God would of even given to these demands were it not that you rejected the previous demands and miracles.

However I still show more miracles, but on God's terms.

Now take that and take the stance:

Suppose I claim I'm a Prophet. And then you say do a miracle. And I say, no. You say why not? I say because all ancient people rejected the miracles of the Prophets of the past so there is no sense in proving it to you. Does it make sense?

The latter seems like a stupid lame illogical excuse, and can even be proven as such because previous Prophets after previous Prophets it didn't prevent them.

I thought the latter was the only way to interpret the verse. The former seems logical.  The latter seems illogical.

The former and the latter are -both- the same lame illogical excuse...but it hardly matters..if we're discussing flaws in the quran...which I thought we were. I do wonder, ofc, how you could have failed to see the proper interpretation of that passage the very first time. If the quran is as perfect as you hilariously claim it to be, it's intent and brilliance should be obvious, even to you. There would be no need or opportunity for this irrational waffling in the first place.

[Mystic]

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Ok. Suppose I claim I'm a Prophet. You ask me ok if you are a Prophet, and you claim ancient Prophets were sent with miracles. Then show me a miracle. I show you a miracle. You then say, well I don't know if it's magic or not, but I will come with my tribe and we will see if you do more miracles. The tribe says only do this and that, we will believe in you and if you don't do it, we won't beleive. Like make a tree walk and then split an half, and one part move towards that direction and another move towards the other direction, without you touching it, this tree, no one but you and us. And then the next day, they come up with more demands. They are meant. Etc, etc. 

Then they start making more demands like they all should be given mansions of gold and be given supply of food from the heaven etc, and then I say, God would of even given to these demands were it not that you rejected the previous demands and miracles.

However I still show more miracles, but on God's terms.

Now take that and take the stance:

Suppose I claim I'm a Prophet. And then you say do a miracle. And I say, no. You say why not? I say because all ancient people rejected the miracles of the Prophets of the past so there is no sense in proving it to you. Does it make sense?

The latter seems like a stupid lame illogical excuse, and can even be proven as such because previous Prophets after previous Prophets it didn't prevent them.

I thought the latter was the only way to interpret the verse. The former seems logical.  The latter seems illogical.

---

The former and the latter are -both- the same lame illogical excuse...but it hardly matters..if we're discussing flaws in the quran...which I thought we were.

Explain. To me the former seems logical. You have to show how they are the same illogical excuse.

[robvalue]

I made a whole video for you MK, personally to you, to try and help you. What more you expect for me I really don't know.

If you're talking about people who come on here ranting and raving, then no, that's not polite so I'm not interested. But I've had plenty of meaningful discussions with theists who are respectful.

[Mystic]

You had good conversations with me, but you stop, just as the conversation starts going somewhere.