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February 13, 2016 at 4:19 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2016 at 4:22 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(February 13, 2016 at 3:36 pm)Evie Wrote:
(February 13, 2016 at 11:37 am)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: Please understand it's not a holy book, it's just one man's observations which happen to coincide with those of many other atheists.
It's not a holy book? Really? I thought it was because I'm an absolute idiot.
That comment wasn't directed at you, Evie! I was just trying to pre-empt what the idiot defenders of theism always say of the books we tend to like, and it's really funny how they think all of us have much admiration for Dawkins. I just happen to be one of those who do, and I don't see much fairness from his detractors among us, who tend to react ideologically.
(February 13, 2016 at 3:13 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Being a teenager you are likely going through the rebellious phase everyone goes through. God is going to do things to make you see the little things, and the dark forces of this world will do everything they can to get you to abandon God. There goal isn't to get you to believe in them, but only to abandon God, because once that happens, they have you. This is spiritual warfare. Remember your human body which you identify with now is just something your true self, your soul resides in for this experience on earth. The body will die, but you, which is a soul, lives forever.
I'm sure your parents are praying for you as well. I remember reading a story of someone that died and was looking back at the earth, and saw beams of light like lasers coming out of the earth. He asked what that was, and was told by the guide that they are prayers. You are at a crossroads in your life, and you can either trust in what's on this earth through your five senses, or you can trust in your eternal life. Either choice you make, you will see the outcome when your body dies, and then reality is revealed.
And the bullshit parade continues.
Note the reliance on argument by assertion steeped in emotive language (you have a soul, it lives forever, spiritual warfare, dark forces). There's no actual argument here. And certainly nothing that has any kind of evidence attached to it. It's the stereotypical vague threats that theists always employ when they see that someone is about to leave their cult and think for themselves. "You're going to be lost forever! And tortured! And...uh...other bad stuff!"
For scooby's shit to even be remotely effective, they'll need to:
1. Prove we have a soul (without merely regurgitating the bible)
2. Prove that the soul is eternal (ditto)
3. Prove there's an afterlife (ditto)
4. Prove there are dark forces at work (ditto)
5. Prove that those dark forces are engaged in spiritual warfare (ditto)
6. Prove that NDE's aren't anything more than hallucinations caused by trauma, drug use, and/or other chemical imbalances and that the people telling the stories aren't liars
And I'm sure I'm missing a few.
This is theist scrambling 101. It always follows the same pattern because it's designed to hammer at fear and guilt (by bringing your parents' feelings into it) fueled by doubt, which is irrational by definition. The goal isn't to provide an argument for god, but to amplify your own fear and doubt and guilt to the point where leaving religion is too frightening to consider. It is also, in my mind, a form of abuse, and it'd be really fucking nice if vultures like scooby would cut the shit out.
Well that's a lot to prove in one post haha. Most of what i'm talking about doesn't fit into the world view of the materialist, in that we are just biological beings with consciousness who can interact with our environments, and this is all that there is, the alpha and the omega, (beginning and the end). Our brains try to make sense out of a world through our five senses which are very limited, yet we come to conclusions based on what we perceive, knowing we can't see, hear, or feel the whole spectrum. One of my favorite shows is brain games showing how our brains work, and how our perceptions are flawed.
Most of the information is hidden, which is why it's not universally understood when it comes to the spirit world. The spirit world is all around us, it's who we are, and where we will enter back into. It can be understood as vibration because everything is vibration, and along with energy, it can't be destroyed.
What I'm talking about is our higher selves. That is only really revealed after we leave ourselves. The only way you can learn about it is tuning into it on that vibration level which is compatible. The best evidence I've found is from reading hundreds of accounts of NDEs, OBEs, researching the occult and their beliefs, the paranormal etc. The soul can't be measured empirically. That will only be found out after you leave your body. And I know you think everyone of the atheists who talk about seeing the afterlife and changing their belief is a liar, but that's such a foolish conclusion to come to. However I really do know how crazy this all sounds, trust me I do, but it's too important not to talk about for fear that people will think I'm crazy. Your life is on the line.
I'm trying to talk about who we truly are, which I don't fully understand, not what we perceive ourselves to be based on our body. It's a lot easier to just believe we are nothing, we can create our own morals without karma consequences, and that the end of the body is the end, so we might as well indulge in all the pleasures of life while we can.
Something interesting is the placebo effect, and why in studies it works to cure disease in some but not others. How can it work at all for that matter, which is still something not fully understood, but science still gives it it's best explanation it can. Science is not the authority since as we all know new studies are done, and new conclusions are drawn as the understanding evolves.
Some even think that the belief in God is a placebo effect, or sometimes a crutch.
(February 13, 2016 at 2:57 pm)GeneralDog Wrote: Okay, I was playing a game and I got some RNG loot or whatever and jokingly/sarcastically I said "Alright god, make this one good." and I spun it and I got one of the rarest items in the entire game! I was blown away and I tried to reason it out saying its just chance but I couldn't and now my OCD is feeding off of it. I say its just chance and that if I didn't say that I would get the exact same thing but my OCD is just like "Nope bro thats god" and I can't stop doubting. I was debating on whether or not to post this because it sounds fucking ridiculous to me.
RNG is exactly that. Random. Do a google search on RNG and how they work.
Coincidences happen. For every person that says "okay, god, do it" that gets a good item, or escapes a plane crash, or wins the lottery, or whatever else, there are dozens to millions in the same circumstance that don't. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Some people are firm in their belief, some people not. Some are old, some are young. Some are rich, some are poor. They're of all races and genders and orientation.
Like the link I posted before said, our brains are wired to see patterns everywhere, even when no patterns exist. Exacerbating this is the cultural annoyance of people ascribing meaning to patterns. Sometimes, shit just happens.
I play a MMO, and good endgame loot is very RNG driven. In the game I play (Final Fantasy X|V), there's a quest chain that gives you an Anima Weapon which can only be obtained by getting 18 particular crystals at the end of a particular kind of open world battle (3 crystals from 6 different locations). I got the first 7-8 crystals in about 4-5 hours. The last two crystals? Took about 12 hours. It wasn't due to anything I did, and the game doesn't have a sliding scale when it comes to granting them. I just went from having fairly good roles of the dice to really shitty roles.
You also may benefit from thinking about things in reverse:
The universe is vast. There are billions of stars in each galaxy, and billions of visible galaxies. Even if there's only one sentient species per galaxy, that's still billions of them. Why would god need to create all that if we're the chosen ones? Why not make the known universe small? Why waste so much material and energy on things that, if we are the chosen ones, don't really matter? And how or why would god give a shit about any of us when, cosmically speaking, we're less significant than a grain of sand on the beach?
Like Neil deGrasse Tyson said recently - if the cosmic timeline is represented by a football field (this was tweeted out during the Super Bowl), humans fill up about a blade of short cut grass. We're just barely (cosmically) done crawling out of the mud, but we're going to let a bunch of ancient Middle Eastern peasants dictate how the cosmos was formed, or what morality is, or, really, anything? End the conversation and keep us at that level? That's logical? No, I don't think so.
My recommendation is that in addition to whatever books you may get that help deconstruct Christianity, you also try learning about basic biology, physics, astronomy, and computer science. It's good information to have, regardless, but you'll actually get a real look at existence that way, which will also help you break the shackles of superstition. To quote Mortal Kombat's Raiden (who likely stole it from someone else, that crafty jerk) "There's no knowledge that is not power." And that's exactly why religion tries to keep its adherents dumb.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
February 13, 2016 at 4:45 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2016 at 4:45 pm by scoobysnack.)
(February 13, 2016 at 3:42 pm)Jenny A Wrote:
(February 13, 2016 at 3:13 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Being a teenager you are likely going through the rebellious phase everyone goes through. God is going to do things to make you see the little things, and the dark forces of this world will do everything they can to get you to abandon God. There goal isn't to get you to believe in them, but only to abandon God, because once that happens, they have you. This is spiritual warfare. Remember your human body which you identify with now is just something your true self, your soul resides in for this experience on earth. The body will die, but you, which is a soul, lives forever.
I'm sure your parents are praying for you as well. I remember reading a story of someone that died and was looking back at the earth, and saw beams of light like lasers coming out of the earth. He asked what that was, and was told by the guide that they are prayers. You are at a crossroads in your life, and you can either trust in what's on this earth through your five senses, or you can trust in your eternal life. Either choice you make, you will see the outcome when your body dies, and then reality is revealed.
Dark forces? Seriously? Though given your belief in a conspiracies, out of body experiences etc., nothing should surprise me.----And here I was just sure you were a teen yourself.
Oh yeah, there are dark forces, many of them human, organized crime who exploit people's weakness through drugs and prostitution among others. Organized crime is also an example of a conspiracy by legal definition, which is two or more people plotting a crime. Of course conspiracies exist, and on a much grander scale that people are aware of. Like rich and powerful people don't get together to form plans? There are also dark forces in the spiritual realm, just like there are forces of light. The darker forces are those of Lucifer who defected from God to challenge the authority of God and are currently at war for supremacy of the universe. Without going into a lot of detail which I could, it's kind of the ying and the yang. There are opposing forces at work in our lives beyond our comprehension.
Even going back to being positive vs negative.
I seriously recommend this book to anyone. The point is not so much whether you believe it, but there are people in very high levels that do, and are acting on this belief to affect our lives. Better to understand than to not.
(February 13, 2016 at 2:57 pm)GeneralDog Wrote: Okay, I was playing a game and I got some RNG loot or whatever and jokingly/sarcastically I said "Alright god, make this one good." and I spun it and I got one of the rarest items in the entire game! I was blown away and I tried to reason it out saying its just chance but I couldn't and now my OCD is feeding off of it. I say its just chance and that if I didn't say that I would get the exact same thing but my OCD is just like "Nope bro thats god" and I can't stop doubting. I was debating on whether or not to post this because it sounds fucking ridiculous to me.
Being a teenager you are likely going through the rebellious phase everyone goes through. God is going to do things to make you see the little things, and the dark forces of this world will do everything they can to get you to abandon God. There goal isn't to get you to believe in them, but only to abandon God, because once that happens, they have you. This is spiritual warfare. Remember your human body which you identify with now is just something your true self, your soul resides in for this experience on earth. The body will die, but you, which is a soul, lives forever.
I'm sure your parents are praying for you as well. I remember reading a story of someone that died and was looking back at the earth, and saw beams of light like lasers coming out of the earth. He asked what that was, and was told by the guide that they are prayers. You are at a crossroads in your life, and you can either trust in what's on this earth through your five senses, or you can trust in your eternal life. Either choice you make, you will see the outcome when your body dies, and then reality is revealed.
Prove to me that the mans visions were not DMT filled visions. I am giving you a suggestion saying Fuck off I'm really not interested in your unfounded belief and it doesn't help me when you bring this shit over here. I can't tell if your goal is to troll or to seriously convert me.
(February 13, 2016 at 3:42 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Dark forces? Seriously? Though given your belief in a conspiracies, out of body experiences etc., nothing should surprise me.----And here I was just sure you were a teen yourself.
Oh yeah, there are dark forces, many of them human, organized crime who exploit people's weakness through drugs and prostitution among others. Organized crime is also an example of a conspiracy by legal definition, which is two or more people plotting a crime. Of course conspiracies exist, and on a much grander scale that people are aware of. Like rich and powerful people don't get together to form plans? There are also dark forces in the spiritual realm, just like there are forces of light. The darker forces are those of Lucifer who defected from God to challenge the authority of God and are currently at war for supremacy of the universe. Without going into a lot of detail which I could, it's kind of the ying and the yang. There are opposing forces at work in our lives beyond our comprehension.
Even going back to being positive vs negative.
I seriously recommend this book to anyone. The point is not so much whether you believe it, but there are people in very high levels that do, and are acting on this belief to affect our lives. Better to understand than to not.
February 13, 2016 at 4:54 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2016 at 5:02 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(February 13, 2016 at 4:46 pm)GeneralDog Wrote:
(February 13, 2016 at 3:13 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Being a teenager you are likely going through the rebellious phase everyone goes through. God is going to do things to make you see the little things, and the dark forces of this world will do everything they can to get you to abandon God. There goal isn't to get you to believe in them, but only to abandon God, because once that happens, they have you. This is spiritual warfare. Remember your human body which you identify with now is just something your true self, your soul resides in for this experience on earth. The body will die, but you, which is a soul, lives forever.
I'm sure your parents are praying for you as well. I remember reading a story of someone that died and was looking back at the earth, and saw beams of light like lasers coming out of the earth. He asked what that was, and was told by the guide that they are prayers. You are at a crossroads in your life, and you can either trust in what's on this earth through your five senses, or you can trust in your eternal life. Either choice you make, you will see the outcome when your body dies, and then reality is revealed.
Prove to me that the mans visions were not DMT filled visions. I am giving you a suggestion saying Fuck off I'm really not interested in your unfounded belief and it doesn't help me when you bring this shit over here. I can't tell if your goal is to troll or to seriously convert me.
Scooby's shaping up to be one nasty, prostelytizing troll, and I wouldn't dignify his nor any evangelist's motives with "conversion" - the fair and descriptive word is "predation". Regarding "conversion", when you stop believing in the religion of your childhood brainwashing, the word for discussing that is "deconversion". Still not a perfect term IMHO, but it works for lack of a better one in the English language.
February 13, 2016 at 4:57 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2016 at 5:03 pm by scoobysnack.)
(February 13, 2016 at 4:46 pm)GeneralDog Wrote:
(February 13, 2016 at 3:13 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Being a teenager you are likely going through the rebellious phase everyone goes through. God is going to do things to make you see the little things, and the dark forces of this world will do everything they can to get you to abandon God. There goal isn't to get you to believe in them, but only to abandon God, because once that happens, they have you. This is spiritual warfare. Remember your human body which you identify with now is just something your true self, your soul resides in for this experience on earth. The body will die, but you, which is a soul, lives forever.
I'm sure your parents are praying for you as well. I remember reading a story of someone that died and was looking back at the earth, and saw beams of light like lasers coming out of the earth. He asked what that was, and was told by the guide that they are prayers. You are at a crossroads in your life, and you can either trust in what's on this earth through your five senses, or you can trust in your eternal life. Either choice you make, you will see the outcome when your body dies, and then reality is revealed.
Prove to me that the mans visions were not DMT filled visions. I am giving you a suggestion saying Fuck off I'm really not interested in your unfounded belief and it doesn't help me when you bring this shit over here. I can't tell if your goal is to troll or to seriously convert me.
Well in the end the path you choose is the future you will deal with. Good luck young man.
February 13, 2016 at 5:01 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2016 at 5:03 pm by ApeNotKillApe.)
(February 13, 2016 at 4:46 pm)GeneralDog Wrote:
(February 13, 2016 at 3:13 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:
Being a teenager you are likely going through the rebellious phase everyone goes through. God is going to do things to make you see the little things, and the dark forces of this world will do everything they can to get you to abandon God. There goal isn't to get you to believe in them, but only to abandon God, because once that happens, they have you. This is spiritual warfare. Remember your human body which you identify with now is just something your true self, your soul resides in for this experience on earth. The body will die, but you, which is a soul, lives forever.
I'm sure your parents are praying for you as well. I remember reading a story of someone that died and was looking back at the earth, and saw beams of light like lasers coming out of the earth. He asked what that was, and was told by the guide that they are prayers. You are at a crossroads in your life, and you can either trust in what's on this earth through your five senses, or you can trust in your eternal life. Either choice you make, you will see the outcome when your body dies, and then reality is revealed.
Prove to me that the mans visions were not DMT filled visions. I am giving you a suggestion saying Fuck off I'm really not interested in your unfounded belief and it doesn't help me when you bring this shit over here. I can't tell if your goal is to troll or to seriously convert me.
You catch a parasite trying to get its teeth in you, you don't pause to ask its motivation; you swat the fucker and get on with your day.
(February 13, 2016 at 4:54 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:
(February 13, 2016 at 4:46 pm)GeneralDog Wrote: Prove to me that the mans visions were not DMT filled visions. I am giving you a suggestion saying Fuck off I'm really not interested in your unfounded belief and it doesn't help me when you bring this shit over here. I can't tell if your goal is to troll or to seriously convert me.
Scooby's shaping up to be one nasty, prostelytizing troll, and I wouldn't dignify his nor any evangelist's motives with "conversion" - the fair and descriptive word is "predation". Regarding "conversion", when you stop believing in the religion of your childhood brainwashing, the word for discussing that is "deconversion". Still not a perfect term IMHO, but it works for lack of a better one in our language.
“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”
Seems to me that you want only your point of view to be heard, and that anyone with a different opinion is a troll.
I was just trying to pre-empt what the idiot defenders of theism always say of the books we tend to like, and it's really funny how they think all of us have much admiration for Dawkins. I just happen to be one of those who do, and I don't see much fairness from his detractors among us, who tend to react ideologically.
