Still struggling.

[Jenny A]

Most of what i'm talking about doesn't fit into the world view of the materialist, in that we are just biological beings with consciousness who can interact with our environments, and this is all that there is, the alpha and the omega, (beginning and the end). Our brains try to make sense out of a world through our five senses which are very limited, yet we come to conclusions based on what we perceive, knowing we can't see, hear, or feel the whole spectrum. One of my favorite shows is brain games showing how our brains work, and how our perceptions are flawed.

And yet you fail to understand how flawed perception explains NDE's.

Most of the information is hidden, which is why it's not universally understood when it comes to the spirit world.

Hidden and non-existent look much alike.

The spirit world is all around us, it's who we are, and where we will enter back into. It can be understood as vibration because everything is vibration, and along with energy, it can't be destroyed.

And now a little word salad.

What I'm talking about is our higher selves. That is only really revealed after we leave ourselves. The only way you can learn about it is tuning into it on that vibration level which is compatible. The best evidence I've found is from reading hundreds of accounts of NDEs, OBEs, researching the occult and their beliefs, the paranormal etc.

If that's the best evidence, one can only imagine what lesser evidence might be.

The soul can't be measured empirically. That will only be found out after you leave your body. And I know you think everyone of the atheists who talk about seeing the afterlife and changing their belief is a liar, but that's such a foolish conclusion to come to. However I really do know how crazy this all sounds, trust me I do, but it's too important not to talk about for fear that people will think I'm crazy.

Don't worry about sounding crazy, we've already figured out that you are crazy, tinfoil body suit crazy.

Your life is on the line.

@GeneralDog
It's really is. You can waste your life on scare mongering idiots, or you can live it.

I'm trying to talk about who we truly are, which I don't fully understand, not what we perceive ourselves to be based on our body. It's a lot easier to just believe we are nothing, we can create our own morals without karma consequences, and that the end of the body is the end, so we might as well indulge in all the pleasures of life while we can.

Actually, it appears easier to believe the local bullshit. Thinking like a skeptic takes work.

Something interesting is the placebo effect, and why in studies it works to cure disease in some but not others. How can it work at all for that matter, which is still something not fully understood, but science still gives it it's best explanation it can. Science is not the authority since as we all know new studies are done, and new conclusions are drawn as the understanding evolves.

Actually, the placebo effect really only applies to self reporting. It certainly does not cure disease. It does affect how people feel or report they are feeling.

Some even think that the belief in God is a placebo effect, or sometimes a crutch.

Indeed.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Scooby's shaping up to be one nasty, prostelytizing troll, and I wouldn't dignify his nor any evangelist's motives with "conversion" - the fair and descriptive word is "predation". Regarding "conversion", when you stop believing in the religion of your childhood brainwashing, the word for discussing that is "deconversion". Still not a perfect term IMHO, but it works for lack of a better one in our language.

“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

Seems to me that you want only your point of view to be heard, and that anyone with a different opinion is a troll.

I'm an atheist, and this is an atheist forum. I don't spend my time on the many forums of theists in any attempt to fuck with their heads through intellectually dishonest and particularly below-the-belt emotional tactics - that is what you do here. Therefore, if you don't mind, I'll just repeat GeneralDog's offer for you to fuck off!

[Athene]

Scooby's shaping up to be one nasty, prostelytizing troll, and I wouldn't dignify his nor any evangelist's motives with "conversion" - the fair and descriptive word is "predation". Regarding "conversion", when you stop believing in the religion of your childhood brainwashing, the word for discussing that is "deconversion". Still not a perfect term IMHO, but it works for lack of a better one in our language.

“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

Seems to me that you want only your point of view to be heard, and that anyone with a different opinion is a troll.

You yourself stated that you didn't wish to delve into your Illuminati/Luciferian conspiracy beliefs because you thought it could cause more harm than good. Yet, you continue to reference them routinely.

You certainly are allowed to do so, but what good could come of you pushing your paranoia and obsession with symbols on a young man who stated that he's already struggling with OCD, besides your own self-satisfaction? Does compulsively seeking signs and being consumed with paranoid suspicion make you happy? Why would you want to pawn that off on an impressionable teen?

Quit being such a selfish bastard.

[scoobysnack]

“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

Seems to me that you want only your point of view to be heard, and that anyone with a different opinion is a troll.

You yourself stated that you didn't wish to delve into your Illuminati/Luciferian conspiracy beliefs because you thought it could cause more harm them good. Yet, you continue to reference them routinely.

You certainly are allowed to do so, but what good could come of you pushing your paranoia and obsession with symbols on a young man who stated that he's already struggling with OCD, besides your own self-satisfaction? Does compulsively seeking signs and being consumed with paranoid suspicion make you happy? Why would you want to pawn that off on an impressionable teen?

Quit being such a selfish bastard.

Well to be fair I actually deleted my post after your post because I didn't want to expose him, but it was already quoted.

These really are not my beliefs. I'm just posting the beliefs of those who have this understanding, at least when it comes to the occult and satanism. Problem with atheism is they have conclusions before studying so don't do much research into things they believe to be false. Your right though, I really don't want to discuss these matters on this forum, but at the same time, it's important for people to understand them. So I'm kind of on the fence. I need to keep in mind the minds of the forumites however. Atheists like to claim they are not the ones being controlled, but just like religion, there are powerful interests that don't want people to believe in God.

The truth is too important for me to suppress it. Knowledge is power, and i'm not here to troll, or say i'm smarter than anyone, but so far I haven't really seen anything to convince me God can't exist. It's all just disbelief, and in the end a belief system. I've researched for 15 years, investigating a lot of corruption. Most of the intelligence services know about this stuff. I think it's important for people to know who's fucking with them, society, along with exposing the propaganda, and social engineering. So maybe I'll move away from that, because people here don't want to have their perception of reality upset by information they don't want to know about.

Trying to expose people to information kind of reminds me of Platos allegory of the cave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6LUptADIww

[Socratic Meth Head]

You yourself stated that you didn't wish to delve into your Illuminati/Luciferian conspiracy beliefs because you thought it could cause more harm them good. Yet, you continue to reference them routinely.

You certainly are allowed to do so, but what good could come of you pushing your paranoia and obsession with symbols on a young man who stated that he's already struggling with OCD, besides your own self-satisfaction? Does compulsively seeking signs and being consumed with paranoid suspicion make you happy? Why would you want to pawn that off on an impressionable teen?

Quit being such a selfish bastard.

Well to be fair I actually deleted my post after your post because I didn't want to expose him, but it was already quoted.

These really are not my beliefs. I'm just posting the beliefs of those who have this understanding, at least when it comes to the occult and satanism. Problem with atheism is they have conclusions before studying so don't do much research into things they believe to be false. Your right though, I really don't want to discuss these matters on this forum, but at the same time, it's important for people to understand them. So I'm kind of on the fence. I need to keep in mind the minds of the forumites however. Atheists like to claim they are not the ones being controlled, but just like religion, there are powerful interests that don't want people to believe in God.

The truth is too important for me to suppress it. Knowledge is power, and i'm not here to troll, or say i'm smarter than anyone, but so far I haven't really seen anything to convince me God can't exist. It's all just disbelief, and in the end a belief system. I've researched for 15 years, used to be an investigative reporter for a while exposing corruption. I think it's important for people to know who's fucking with them, society, along with exposing the propaganda, and social engineering. So maybe I'll move away from that, because people here don't want to have their perception of reality upset by information they don't want to know about.

Trying to expose people to information kind of reminds me of Platos allegory of the cave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6LUptADIww

I saw your reply and it was less than adequate to convince anyone. Tell me what you have seen to convince you god DOES exist. You shouldn't believe in something because it can't be disproven. I can't disprove pink invisible unicorns.

[LastPoet]

Nobody can disprove the twin goddesses. Blessed be the holy cleavage.

[scoobysnack]

Well to be fair I actually deleted my post after your post because I didn't want to expose him, but it was already quoted.

These really are not my beliefs. I'm just posting the beliefs of those who have this understanding, at least when it comes to the occult and satanism. Problem with atheism is they have conclusions before studying so don't do much research into things they believe to be false. Your right though, I really don't want to discuss these matters on this forum, but at the same time, it's important for people to understand them. So I'm kind of on the fence. I need to keep in mind the minds of the forumites however. Atheists like to claim they are not the ones being controlled, but just like religion, there are powerful interests that don't want people to believe in God.

The truth is too important for me to suppress it. Knowledge is power, and i'm not here to troll, or say i'm smarter than anyone, but so far I haven't really seen anything to convince me God can't exist. It's all just disbelief, and in the end a belief system. I've researched for 15 years, used to be an investigative reporter for a while exposing corruption. I think it's important for people to know who's fucking with them, society, along with exposing the propaganda, and social engineering. So maybe I'll move away from that, because people here don't want to have their perception of reality upset by information they don't want to know about.

Trying to expose people to information kind of reminds me of Platos allegory of the cave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6LUptADIww

I saw your reply and it was less than adequate to convince anyone. Tell me what you have seen to convince you god DOES exist. You shouldn't believe in something because it can't be disproven. I can't disprove pink invisible unicorns.

In the end, proof is of God and the spirit realm, and anything other than the material world is in the eye of the beholder with eyes that can see. Perception of reality is a sum of ones experiences, and information gathered whether accurate or not. Personal experiences in my life, and information I've researched proved to me I don't know it all, and there is a lot more to learn. For me it's more interesting to learn everything I can, rather than limit what I research based on my beliefs. Why do you think I'm here as someone that believes in God interacting with atheists. I'm curious to understand your belief system is. I would say you need to get out of your comfort zone and have your beliefs challenged, whether it's researching something you don't believe in, or interacting with non atheists.

Back when I was about 18 my cousins were in town, and I had bought a quigi board to try out. My one cousin didn't like the idea, but convinced him to do it anyway. As you could imagine it started moving, and we all accused eachother of moving it. To be fair I even moved it to scare my cousins. After a while we kept asking questions, never knowing who was moving it or if it was moving itself. Suddenly the lights flickered, and all the doors in the house slammed shut, including the door in the basement. Since our parents were out to dinner and my brothers and cousins were in the basement, we didn't know what to think. I still don't know what to think about that, but it happened, and I can't explain it. I can try to explain it in paranormal terms, but really can't explain it in the end. It was not a windy day, and the windows were shut. It scared the hell out of us, and my cousin who was against it, destroyed it.

Problem with people that try to explain everything away that really can't be explained is they used occums razor. I'm sure the reply would be that I'm lying, or was on drugs.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

I saw your reply and it was less than adequate to convince anyone. Tell me what you have seen to convince you god DOES exist. You shouldn't believe in something because it can't be disproven. I can't disprove pink invisible unicorns.

In the end, proof is of God and the spirit realm, and anything other than the material world is in the eye of the beholder with eyes that can see. Perception of reality is a sum of ones experiences, and information gathered whether accurate or not. Personal experiences in my life, and information I've researched proved to me I don't know it all, and there is a lot more to learn. For me it's more interesting to learn everything I can, rather than limit what I research based on my beliefs. Why do you think I'm here as someone that believes in God interacting with atheists. I'm curious to understand your belief system is. I would say you need to get out of your comfort zone and have your beliefs challenged, whether it's researching something you don't believe in, or interacting with non atheists.

Back when I was about 18 my cousins were in town, and I had bought a quigi board to try out. My one cousin didn't like the idea, but convinced him to do it anyway. As you could imagine it started moving, and we all accused eachother of moving it. To be fair I even moved it to scare my cousins. After a while we kept asking questions, never knowing who was moving it or if it was moving itself. Suddenly the lights flickered, and all the doors in the house slammed shut, including the door in the basement. Since our parents were out to dinner and my brothers and cousins were in the basement, we didn't know what to think. I still don't know what to think about that, but it happened, and I can't explain it. I can try to explain it in paranormal terms, but really can't explain it in the end. It was not a windy day, and the windows were shut. It scared the hell out of it, and my cousin who was against it, destroyed it.

All smoke and mirrors bullshit and unfounded assertions**. Keep trying if you think you can prove the existence of any god or "spirit realm"!

**Hint: assertions<>proof! Neither does fact-free argument, btw.

[scoobysnack]

In the end, proof is of God and the spirit realm, and anything other than the material world is in the eye of the beholder with eyes that can see. Perception of reality is a sum of ones experiences, and information gathered whether accurate or not. Personal experiences in my life, and information I've researched proved to me I don't know it all, and there is a lot more to learn. For me it's more interesting to learn everything I can, rather than limit what I research based on my beliefs. Why do you think I'm here as someone that believes in God interacting with atheists. I'm curious to understand your belief system is. I would say you need to get out of your comfort zone and have your beliefs challenged, whether it's researching something you don't believe in, or interacting with non atheists.

Back when I was about 18 my cousins were in town, and I had bought a quigi board to try out. My one cousin didn't like the idea, but convinced him to do it anyway. As you could imagine it started moving, and we all accused eachother of moving it. To be fair I even moved it to scare my cousins. After a while we kept asking questions, never knowing who was moving it or if it was moving itself. Suddenly the lights flickered, and all the doors in the house slammed shut, including the door in the basement. Since our parents were out to dinner and my brothers and cousins were in the basement, we didn't know what to think. I still don't know what to think about that, but it happened, and I can't explain it. I can try to explain it in paranormal terms, but really can't explain it in the end. It was not a windy day, and the windows were shut. It scared the hell out of it, and my cousin who was against it, destroyed it.

All smoke and mirrors bullshit and unfounded assertions**. Keep trying if you think you can prove the existence of any god or "spirit realm"!

**Hint: assertions<>proof! Neither does fact-free argument, btw.

Does The Soul Exist? Evidence Says ‘Yes’
New scientific theory recognizes life’s spiritual dimension
Posted Dec 21, 2011

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/bio...e-says-yes

I've come to conclude that ghosts are just earthbound souls who have not traveled on yet, and for some reason or another based on them, they still reside here. Many people who come back from death get to see and ask questions about earth, and one aspect is that we are all souls. Some are still here because they are scared to move forward after death, and some are even addicts still trying to go into the body of other drug addicts to feel the effects.

I was at a fourth of July party and this women who owned the house we were at started showing us pictures she took on her phone because she thought her home was haunted. Her son committed suicide in the home. One picture, had this really creepy face in it, which I wish I had to share. She told me of stories of things flying off the shelf, and everyone in a while she would walk into the kitchen and her trash can lid that was on a hinge was rocking back and forth.

There are plenty of stories out there of people I know personally with strange experiences. And many of these people are atheists, and don't like to talk about them, but there's a lot of strange things out there to suggest the soul exists outside the body.

[ApeNotKillApe]

Sorry, where was the evidence in that article?