OP ED RANT! Never accuse me of this.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Of course it doesn't make sense, nor is it fair to be treating, by default, the people who fled ISIS as if they are ISIS agents. But maybe we should keep a wary eye on the half-educated Syrian with 8 sons who he speaks proudly of but hides his daughters under bed sheets, carries few clothes but somehow made room for a big, fine prayer rug.

[Brian37]

Dont get me wrong here, I am still with the west in saying that Islam really has the biggest PR problem and I do agree much of it's own refusal to get with the modern world is coming from the Quran. I only am saying buying fear as a blanket solution is not a solution.

You are correct, some modern concepts don't get Islam's approval, starting from the economy -loans with interests; not dedicating a fixed portion to give to the poor "Zaka"...etc-, up to the rules of warfare, that allows the use of mass bombing -tactical bombing- and atomic weapons.

What I want from from the opposing voice, is to rule out & say the real reasons behind why Islam don't integrate; instead, they generalize that Islam creates terrorists and rapists, thus the faith can't live in the modern world. In reality, it's everything but those two reasons: the religion produces a different reflection in terms of living; a different lifestyle that is hardly known or seen today. 

Moreover, the problems in the behavior of Middle Eastern people goes back to the culture; the same culture that existed long before Islam, you can see a small display in how the culture in this region, used to treat women like sex toys long before Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq%C4%81b..._face_veil

Blaming Islam is rash. A decision taken before further research is made. I don't just blame non Muslims for this, some modern Muslims too have given a terrible example over the years .

But your Quran does condone rape, just like all the books of Abraham. The fact you don't interpret it that way, does not mean other Muslims dont.

Your Quran treats girls as prizes "virgin" to be given out like door prizes, not humans. And not just prizes, submissive that must obey the man. That means if the man commands the woman to give her sex, regardless if she wants to, she has to. And that also means the collective men of the society have the right to punish girls/women for the way they dress or wanting educations.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#25

As soon as the man buys the idea they have dominion over girls/women, then they can justify whatever they do to them, because the are not considered humans, but property.

Now you can claim all you want the words aren't there to justify it, but that does not change that people do pick up that book and justify the following.

Taking verses as a singular unit, that is out of context, is a disaster.

Taking from the article:

The Islamic State practices pure Islam. Their theological argument is authentic.

I fell in love, with how the author is so self confident, in stating what "true" Islam is. Ironic in its essense, for that when an apologist Muslim jumps to the defence using the word "true Islam", critics would start pointing fingers and condemn the argument.

Anyhow, the ISIS is not practicing real Islam, and it is not the perfect example too, the militia smells with intelligence agencies, and its presence came in a very strange time, they only exist in certain places that lead to arise the big question: is their motive, really, is to build a caliphate? why is Saudi Arabia spared -despite it practicing the same acts- while ISIS is "bombed"? But I won't turn this into a political debate..but ISIS is no example.

Cole Bunzel, a scholar of Islamic theology at Princeton University, disagrees, pointing to the numerous references to the phrase “Those your right hand possesses” in the Quran, which for centuries has been interpreted to mean female slaves.

As a native Arab, I raise a red flag, because the word "Molk-Yameen/Posession of the right hand" went both ways for men and women alike.

As for the link that contained verses which are "hypothetically" advocates rape, I gotta say if somebody doesn't know Arabic, he shouldn't worry himself with interpreting an ancient text, that is written with an Arabic tongue that is not even used today, anywhere. Some Muslims just follow their scholars like cattle.

With my knowledge with humans, anything can be interpreted differently. There are people, for instance, who use western values to cause severe damage to others; one example is how democracy was used to demonize others.
If the need insisted, anything can be used as a weapon.

It might not be convincing to you. But the problem begins and ends with humans. Not religion.

Blaming Islam IS NOT rash, blaming the concept of ALL religions that create human divisions based on old books is quite rational.

Islam is a religion, so is Christianity and so is Hebrew. All three stem from the same god of Abraham, and all three unfortunately for humanity, set up divisions that lead to oppressive laws and or violence. Islam didn't invent religious justifications for cruelty, no, but all those books contain stories that give the readers justifications for such. I am not for blaming all Muslims no. But I am for blaming Islam, and Christianity and Jews, for refusing to understand how dangerous their respective books can be.

I am not for blaming all Muslims, no. I am for blaming humans for not understanding that for all the good the three religions point to, there are others under the same label, that use those same books, to justify cruelty and tribalism.

So yes, Islam is to blame, but so is Christianity and Jews. I think it would be wise for all three, to stop insisting on governments that advocate religious pecking orders, and simply leave it at protecting freedom of religion without favoring social pecking orders where government favors one over another.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Just keep at it - use the insults that you learned here just because they've been used on you, pretend they apply effectively where they don't just because you don't want to admit when you're wrong (on anything), stroke yourself off every time you pretend to win an argument. Keep that shit up, and maybe you wont even see the advance of mentally debilitating narcissism, as it consumes you. In another month or two you'll be just like Little Rick!

[Nay_Sayer]

The quran is garbage just like the bible, Moving on.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

How about an eye for an eye?  When the rapist is apprehended rape him and everyone in his family.  It's so holy book.

Mob rule was what the dark ages were. Mob rule is what far too much of the middle east is. No thanks.

So you don't like the current sitaution but you aren't willing to change it.  OK.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Dont get me wrong here, I am still with the west in saying that Islam really has the biggest PR problem and I do agree much of it's own refusal to get with the modern world is coming from the Quran. I only am saying buying fear as a blanket solution is not a solution.

You are correct, some modern concepts don't get Islam's approval, starting from the economy -loans with interests; not dedicating a fixed portion to give to the poor "Zaka"...etc-, up to the rules of warfare, that allows the use of mass bombing -tactical bombing- and atomic weapons.

What I want from from the opposing voice, is to rule out & say the real reasons behind why Islam don't integrate; instead, they generalize that Islam creates terrorists and rapists, thus the faith can't live in the modern world. In reality, it's everything but those two reasons: the religion produces a different reflection in terms of living; a different lifestyle that is hardly known or seen today. 

Moreover, the problems in the behavior of Middle Eastern people goes back to the culture; the same culture that existed long before Islam, you can see a small display in how the culture in this region, used to treat women like sex toys long before Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq%C4%81b..._face_veil

Blaming Islam is rash. A decision taken before further research is made. I don't just blame non Muslims for this, some modern Muslims too have given a terrible example over the years .

But your Quran does condone rape, just like all the books of Abraham. The fact you don't interpret it that way, does not mean other Muslims dont.

Your Quran treats girls as prizes "virgin" to be given out like door prizes, not humans. And not just prizes, submissive that must obey the man. That means if the man commands the woman to give her sex, regardless if she wants to, she has to. And that also means the collective men of the society have the right to punish girls/women for the way they dress or wanting educations.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#25

As soon as the man buys the idea they have dominion over girls/women, then they can justify whatever they do to them, because the are not considered humans, but property.

Now you can claim all you want the words aren't there to justify it, but that does not change that people do pick up that book and justify the following.

Taking verses as a singular unit, that is out of context, is a disaster.

Taking from the article:

The Islamic State practices pure Islam. Their theological argument is authentic.

I fell in love, with how the author is so self confident, in stating what "true" Islam is. Ironic in its essense, for that when an apologist Muslim jumps to the defence using the word "true Islam", critics would start pointing fingers and condemn the argument.

Anyhow, the ISIS is not practicing real Islam, and it is not the perfect example too, the militia smells with intelligence agencies, and its presence came in a very strange time, they only exist in certain places that lead to arise the big question: is their motive, really, is to build a caliphate? why is Saudi Arabia spared -despite it practicing the same acts- while ISIS is "bombed"? But I won't turn this into a political debate..but ISIS is no example.

Cole Bunzel, a scholar of Islamic theology at Princeton University, disagrees, pointing to the numerous references to the phrase “Those your right hand possesses” in the Quran, which for centuries has been interpreted to mean female slaves.

As a native Arab, I raise a red flag, because the word "Molk-Yameen/Posession of the right hand" went both ways for men and women alike.

As for the link that contained verses which are "hypothetically" advocates rape, I gotta say if somebody doesn't know Arabic, he shouldn't worry himself with interpreting an ancient text, that is written with an Arabic tongue that is not even used today, anywhere. Some Muslims just follow their scholars like cattle.

With my knowledge with humans, anything can be interpreted differently. There are people, for instance, who use western values to cause severe damage to others; one example is how democracy was used to demonize others.
If the need insisted, anything can be used as a weapon.

It might not be convincing to you. But the problem begins and ends with humans. Not religion.

The problem is that people are too stupid to knock the brains out of the person who oppresses them.  So they will always be oppressed.  If a woman's husband treats her like dirt it would end when she knocked his brains out while he was sleeping.  And she wouldn't raise any boys that followed their father's behavior.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

AtlasS33, I think magazines marketed at women do more damage than the porn industry. At least in porn videos they can't use photoshop. The women's magazines talk about all of the latest diets and fashion. In my opinion, we need more heterosexual men working in the fashion industry because they know what the typical man actually like in women (unlike homosexuals and women themselves).

Society in general puts a lot of pressure on both genders. And we are seeing increasing amounts of men really upset at their bodies. So I don't think the focus should just be on women.

In terms of religion, it's always the women that seem to need to be controlled. Never the men. Which is why I think even the Hijab is dangerous; it reinforces this idea that it's the lady's fault of she is raped. Why can't men be taught rape is wrong rather than restricting women?

Some people say that they love the Hijab. But you won't find it in the Quran. The Quran only mentions modesty and not specific items of clothing as far as I'm aware. Hijab offers no supernatural protection against rape. But if a lie is repeated often enough, it is eventually seen as truth.

When I see five year old girls in Hijabs I think to myself: Why are you sexualizing your daughter like that? The Hijab says that the woman wearing it is a sex object. It's evil.

In the Bible hookers wore burkas.

[Brian37]

The quran is garbage just like the bible, Moving on.

And the Jewish OT and Hindu Vedas and Buddhist writings. You cant get of any religion, but they all amount to the same thing, "I find this pretty, and we do good".

[Nay_Sayer]

The quran is garbage just like the bible, Moving on.

And the Jewish OT and Hindu Vedas and Buddhist writings. You cant get of any religion, but they all amount to the same thing, "I find this pretty, and we do good".

good being in extra quotations.

[WinterHold]

Blaming Islam IS NOT rash, blaming the concept of ALL religions that create human divisions based on old books is quite rational.

Islam is a religion, so is Christianity and so is Hebrew. All three stem from the same god of Abraham, and all three unfortunately for humanity, set up divisions that lead to oppressive laws and or violence. Islam didn't invent religious justifications for cruelty, no, but all those books contain stories that give the readers justifications for such. I am not for blaming all Muslims no. But I am for blaming Islam, and Christianity and Jews, for refusing to understand how dangerous their respective books can be.

I am not for blaming all Muslims, no. I am for blaming humans for not understanding that for all the good the three religions point to, there are others under the same label, that use those same books, to justify cruelty and tribalism.

So yes, Islam is to blame, but so is Christianity and Jews. I think it would be wise for all three, to stop insisting on governments that advocate religious pecking orders, and simply leave it at protecting freedom of religion without favoring social pecking orders where government favors one over another.

The middle east was a one united chunk under Islam; once nationalism was presented, boom: it got cut like a cake into too many states, fighting each other like savages.there always was a Sunni-Shia conflict in the past; there was but it was lighter and more vivid than today, but now under nationalism, a close look to Saudi Arabia & Iran, a look at Iraq, Islam helped the people once to get over racism and tribalism, but once it was left, the region again got caught in a turmoiil that I don't think would be solved soon, looking at Syria,Libya and Iraq.

Here's where I differ with you in my view.

As for forcing religion(s) on the government or certain nations, I can guarantee that Islam cannot be forced and should not be forced, if the majority votes for a certain system; the majority wins, plain and simple.

I tried to validate the extreme claims some Muslim factions state, that the religion should be forced, actually the Quran stated it loud and clear:

http://quran.com/2/256
(Sura 2 Verse 256) There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Ah, that being said, if somebody doesn't like pecking, they should leave to a society where the pecking doesn't exist. Immigration happened during the time of the prophet, from Mecca -which had a bigot tribal system that used to torture Muslims- to Madina -which was a free land where Muslims could've practiced their faith-. But pecking should be limited to verbal and methods that aren't physical or fatal. Pecking with torture, murder, warfare and death will be met with a fightback, and probably that's the case for any human on earth.

But I never agreed with Muslims, who immigrate to a non-Muslim country, then whine..

You can guess. I actually believe that the west -in its treatment to Muslims- is in many aspects, better than current Arabic and used-to be-Muslim states, like Saudi Arabia