Teach children about Jesus at a young age,

[Brian37]

states Billy Graham.

Well, duh, how else are you going to indoctrinate the next generation?

Evangelist Billy Graham said that introducing children to Jesus and the Christian faith at a young age will help strengthen their faith later on.

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/b...g-age.html

No it wont you dipshit Billy Graham Cracker, at least not the "My way or the highway" crap you sell. Islamic schools in the Middle East also teach their kids that Allah is the only god.

That teaches them to grow up and be intolerant of everyone else. Strong in intolerance makes you a bully and it also sets that child up to not have good conflict resolution skills when they get offended.

[Minimalist]

I'm a Protestant in so much that I don't agree with the catholic church, but not in denomination, I don't agree with protestant denominations either.

Incase you haven't noticed, the Catholics and the protestants are pretty much hand in hand.

That's what I said.  They all suck.

[Bob Kelso]

No, the subject is about "teaching children about Jesus at a young age", which you guys turned into being about indoctrination.

I realize you're behind a thick wall of bias here, Huggy, but get real. An impressionable child is told -as truth- that a god, made-flesh, walked the earth performing miracles and espousing common sense and commands from on high alike and then died to save them from a fate worse than death... what do you expect us to call that? 

I say "as truth" because you really can't expect me to believe that the vast majority of Christian parents don't do their Christian duty and try to "save" their children from damnation. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar they are few and far between, and they aren't the ones I would take issue with.

My original point was that for the Christian, there is no commandment but to love everyone, even the undeserving. For if you only love the deserving, where is the reward? No one deserves God's love, yet he loved you anyway; And THAT"S what being a Christian is about, 'to Be like Christ'.

*my bold*

You will find many Christians who disagree with that first portion in bold, but, again, that's beside the point even if it were true. 

As for the second, if you wish to love those who will only answer it with contempt, violence and abuse then feel free to do so. The only reward I can see is the twisted sense of self-serving martyrdom and a boat-load of heartache.

No one deserves God's love, yet he loved you anyway; And THAT"S what being a Christian is about, 'to Be like Christ'.

This is one of the things I find most repulsive about Christianity. It sees us as wretched, inherently unworthy, creatures but God supposedly loves us unconditionally. Yet we are met with conditions. We must suspend our critical thinking and embrace what can't be proven with all that we are, and if we don't we burn for it. 

To take from Hitchens; within the scope of Christianity we are made sick and commanded to be well, and that's utterly unacceptable.

Suuuuurvey says...

*error response cannot be found*

[robvalue]

Huggy:

You say you're a Protestant (Christian, I presume).

Yet your tag line says you don't believe in religion. Don't you consider this to be a religion?

[Huggy Bear]

Huggy:

You say you're a Protestant (Christian, I presume).

Yet your tag line says you don't believe in religion. Don't you consider this to be a religion?

I said I'm a protestant insomuch that I disagree with the Catholic church, protestant means "to protest" the Catholic church. Nowadays that's not what it means, the protestant denominations are in bed with the Catholic church.





To answer your question, I don't belong to any religious organization.

[LadyForCamus]

Indoctrination? please, Since when is teaching a child to love their fellow man indoctrination?

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The second commandment is like the first because in loving your neighbor, you love God.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

If everyone loved their neighbor as themselves we'd all be living in an utopia.

If "indoctrination" makes a child a good human being, how is that a bad thing?

---

As far as not eating unclean meats are concerned:

1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Why would I need the character of Jesus to teach my child about loving fellow man?

[Ben Davis]

---

So you haven't been reading the posts then. I don't know why I bother sometimes.

What I CLEARLY stated was in the context of Ideology, seeing how were talking about indoctrination.

Well, I've certainly not been talking about anything else. I'm trying to break you out of your quasi-Boolean thinking. A suitably manipulative person, when not framed by any ethical concerns, can use a variety of indoctrinative techniques can get anyone to believe, sincerely, anything. That's been the thrust of my criticism of your initial position (which you still haven't cleared up for me yet - Do you care about the motivations or not?!).

"which is why I refered to the Nazi example.
Do you agree with the above statement?

I'm sure most Nazis were good, kind & loving, to their mothers, to friends & colleagues, maybe even to broader society on the whole. Just don't ask them about Jews or Gypsies. So I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve using this example, other than to highlight the continues failure of your quasi-Boolean thinking.

You cannot produce love with hate, you cannot "indoctrinate" people with hateful ideology and produce love, It's common sense.

Yes you can. Stockholm syndrome is a perfect example as are cases of DA.

Therefore I am comfortable in saying that any ideology (no matter what it is) that causes one to love their fellow man, I'm ok with.

Well, I'm not. Do you think that North Koreans love each other any less than any other society?

You on the other hand choose to make it about abuse, and anyone with a brain knows that abuse causes fear, not love.

You're wrong. Please see above.

Either it's love or it isn't, to "mimic" love means it's NOT love.

And yet again, if ou don't care about the motivations behind it, how can you tell the difference? I'm going to keep asking this until I actually get an answer and not a dodge.

So if you saying that Abuse does not in fact cause love, then I agree.

Jesus fucking wept...

---

Hey Huggy, any response or have you dumped this conversation?

[Joods]

He didn't address my post either.

[Ben Davis]

Wouldn't be the first time he's simply dropped a subject.






I won't suggest any reason for his doing so...

[/suggestiveness]

[robvalue]

Huggy:

You say you're a Protestant (Christian, I presume).

Yet your tag line says you don't believe in religion. Don't you consider this to be a religion?

I said I'm a protestant insomuch that I disagree with the Catholic church, protestant means "to protest" the Catholic church. Nowadays that's not what it means, the protestant denominations are in bed with the Catholic church.





To answer your question, I don't belong to any religious organization.

OK, fair enough. But don't you consider Christianity as a whole to be a religion? If not, what is it?