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Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 2:56 am (This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 3:06 am by ReptilianPeon.)
This trope has been resurrected by some of al-Saud's henchmen and you can see the slogan in many "Dawah" videos. It's part of a marketing campaign where they try and make Saudi seem more palatable to use Kuffa. I've tried to organize my thoughts on the subject in the hopes of making a video presentation but it's starting to look inconclusive. I'm not sure which position is better to argue for. Life may be comparable to a game or it might not me. Do I leave it at that or do I find definitive answer?
The henchmen of al-Saud in the West haven't told us what sort of game they are talking about when they ambush the general public. Is it a particular sport their slogan t-shirt alludes to? Or a type of board game? Or do they mean a card game? I know I'm thinking more deeply about then that Abdul Wahaabs lackeys would like me to, but it really bugs me.
Just to add some further thoughts to the below text, I think I was beginning to argue that it's the Theist that thinks life is a game. Angels in the Quran behave like characters in a video game (like a computer) and video games are programmed, like they say our universe is programmed. And, every piece of programming video game has a purpose, like how Theists say our universe is full of purpose.
Yet I could also argue that irreligious people are happy to call life a game, if it means comparing our universe to a sandbox game - like Minecraft. But I'm not sure that I'm happy with this argumentation. I hesitate to compare lift to a game but I have type a paragraph or two arguing just that.
This is a response (analysis of) to the trope touted by the personages of the LDM or, more accurately, the Hyde Park Corner, or in other words, Extremely Local Dawah Movement and their cronies. I suspect that if you’re watching this video, you would have seen some of the propaganda material that’s been shoved in peoples’ faces by people seeking to spread al-Saud’s cultural hegemony and export the Saudi Arabian status quo. Or you might have seen it seen it elsewhere, as this image shows*. First we need to understand what a game is as a game can mean several things.
*In the presentation I will show a still of the t-shirt from the video in the BBC article:
Fourth Portsmouth man Mehdi Hassan killed in Syria http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29771293
The protagonists from the aforementioned organization, and others, would have you believe that humans, and indeed the entire universe, are programmed to perfection, or in other words, finely tuned. So, I would start off by saying, that video games are also programmed, albeit sometimes not very well. Similarly, video games tend to have a set of goals and rules you have to follow. Often they will come with an instruction manual too. These are all things Theists argue life has. In fact, it is asserted that the Quran is an instruction manual (for life).
If you want to do well in a video game, in other words not lose, you have to follow the rules and try and attain the ultimate goal. It’s analogous to a test, really, because in many games (not all I should stress) there is a score or some other way to keep track of one’s progress. If you do well on the test of life you spend less time in hell, right? So, like a typical game, you need to get a good score. In the description below there is a link to an article answering the question: “Does the Quran say Muhammad’s believers are going to spend time in hellfire?” (Written by Answering-Islam).
So, if we assume that life has goals, rules and that humans are programmed to live in this universe, then it’s entirely possible that life is “just a game”. And I don’t think that is what the confederacy, funded in part by the al-Saud family in order to spread Saudi cultural hegemony, was intending when they ask the (rhetorical?) question: “Is life just a game?”, the emphasis of course being on the word “just”. Well, as I said before, a game can mean various things. And, I should add that, not all games come with an instruction manual or a scoring system or even rules.
A game doesn’t have to have set goals or rules in order to be considered a ‘game’. What is probably the world’s most popular video game at the moment, Minecraft, has no goals, rules or way of keeping track of your progress. Minecraft is what is known as a “Sandbox” game. In it, the player can do as they wish because the character has no predetermined purpose, other than to survive. In Minecraft, you create your own destiny.
Now we have a problem. Both Atheists and Theists can argue that life is “just a game”. So, is life “just a game”? Well, I would argue that humans are playing a sandbox game, not unlike Minecraft. Why do I say this you ask?
For a start, our universe is not finely tuned. The universe we live in is heavily influenced by choice and chance. That’s why there are such things as The Butterfly Effect and Chaos Theory. What if the meteorite that killed off the dinosaurs never hit the Earth? What if Adolf Hitler decided not to invade the Soviet Union?
The universe, like a sandbox game, has no ultimate goal. However, we do know that it had a beginning - just like any game - and it’s reasonable to assume that it will have an end too. However, I am willing to claim that we live in a multiverse, and I support the increasing number of physicists who say that there are an indeterminate number of universes - likely more than there are ‘map seeds’ in Minecraft.
In Minecraft, once you get bored of one map you can get the game to randomly generate another. You might get a map with a spawn area that’s easy to build on and lots of useful resources near you, or you might spawn on a barren desert. Minecraft maps are not created equal. I maintain that the universe we live in is a like the winning lottery ticket. Humans have adapted to the universe we live in. The universe was not created with humans in mind. It’s just too dangerous.
Something else to note is Third Party Software. Games can be modified – just like the universe. Soon humans will be making Luna and Mars habitable as they seek to mine them for resources and conduct research on them. They will terraform them – in other words – modifying them. According to world renowned scientist Michio Kaku, humans are close to being a “type one civilization”, a civilization that is in control of an entire planet, as they already have many aspects of what he calls a “type one civilization”. A “type two civilization” will exercise control over an entire solar system and, finally, a “type three civilization” has control over an even greater area than just one, or indeed several (a star system), solar systems.
Another thing to note is how badly humans have been made. In Minecraft, for example, most want to edit the player character, because, like humans, he is very crudely made. A human is something very basic you can modify, unlike entire plants and star systems, and humans have been modifying each other for millennia.
As a result of humans being far from perfect, money has to be spent in order to alleviate their imperfections. That’s why some people are forced to wear spectacles or monocles, undergo intrusive cancer treatment and have organ transplants. If there is a deity they have done an awful job at creating humans.
Just like life on the Earth, video games have come from humble beginnings. Ever since they first appeared, video games have been continuously evolving. I’m sure when Alexey Pajitnov was first programming Tetris at the Soviet Academy of Sciences he could never have imagined how influential video games would become, so much so that people wishing to export the Saudi Arabian status quo to other parts of the world would be using them in their analogies.
RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 3:00 am
No, because games are miniature realities in which skills and behavior can be tested and trained. Their whole point is that they are not life but a simulation. (not taking into account gambling or pro sports where results of games are designed on purpose to affect real life.)
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 3:08 am
(May 20, 2016 at 3:00 am)Alex K Wrote: No, because games are miniature realities in which skills and behavior can be tested and trained. Their whole point is that they are not life but a simulation. (not taking into account gambling or pro sports where results of games are designed on purpose to affect real life.)
Thanks for that. I'll have to mention that. Thing is, the people have the slogan "is life just a game?" do say that life is where we are tested and trained in preparation for, as they call it, "the day of judgement". So I don't know how helpful mentioning that is, though I suppose it adds credence to the idea that it's the Theist who thinks that life is a game.
RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 3:50 am (This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 3:55 am by Alex K.)
(May 20, 2016 at 3:08 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote:
(May 20, 2016 at 3:00 am)Alex K Wrote: No, because games are miniature realities in which skills and behavior can be tested and trained. Their whole point is that they are not life but a simulation. (not taking into account gambling or pro sports where results of games are designed on purpose to affect real life.)
Thanks for that. I'll have to mention that. Thing is, the people have the slogan "is life just a game?" do say that life is where we are tested and trained in preparation for, as they call it, "the day of judgement". So I don't know how helpful mentioning that is, though I suppose it adds credence to the idea that it's the Theist who thinks that life is a game.
Yes, exactly. Don't we observe this kind of absurd projection all the time in conversations with believers?
"We believers are humble, while you atheists think you are God! You atheists think you can do whatever you want! Atheism is just a religion anyways. You atheists think life is just a game! You don't have any moral standards!"
To which the answer is of course - 1. No, we don't think we are God, because we don't believe in gods. But you believe the creator of the whole universe's made it just for you, cares where you touch yourself and helps your football team win, but it is us who need to learn humility? 2. No, you can sin and then ask for forgiveness with Jesus afterwards, we have to live with the consequences of our actions 3. So, you are saying religions are a bad thing, then? 4. No, we only have one life to live, while you think it's just a test run for eternity. 5. Well, we have to work hard to get our ethics right, you just do what you're told and think that's moral (or so you like to claim although you don't really). That's not moral, that's blind obedience to a sky dictator.
The list surely goes on, but there's a pattern. Believers take the most problematic aspects of their faith and accuse nonbelievers of the same thing. I'm at a loss what the mechanism behind that is.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 3:59 am (This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 4:00 am by robvalue.)
This is backwards.
Life is a game to most religious people, not to atheists. Life is "just a test". What more of a game could it be? It reduces existence to some sort of perverse sport with a celestial umpire grading people.
To your average sceptic atheist, life is the likely entirety of existence, and so has far more value and reason to be taken seriously at every turn.
I was discussing with a friend recently, and we came to the conclusion that life would seem like a game to a psycopath; someone who is incapable of caring about anything, not even themselves.
Feel free to send me a private message.
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RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 4:01 am
Probably just the religionists in denial. It's ironic yes. The more I think about this the more confused I become. Theist should be confused by their own statements but most don't think deeply enough. I struggle to understand these "great debaters" when they debate the famous Atheists; they all sound so confused and it's horrible. And their lackeys will still say they won. Perhaps it's delusions of grandeur?
RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 4:01 am
(May 20, 2016 at 3:59 am)robvalue Wrote: This is backwards.
Life is a game to most religious people, not to atheists. Life is "just a test". What more of a game could it be? It reduces existence to some sort of perverse sport with a celestial umpire grading people.
To your average sceptic atheist, life is the likely entirety of existence, and so has far more value and reason to be taken seriously at every turn.
I was discussing with a friend recently, and we came to the conclusion that life would seem like a game to a psycopath; someone who is incapable of caring about anything, not even themselves.
Many theist's moral arguments implicitly start like this: "Ok, so, let's assume we were all psychopaths..."
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
RE: Theist trope: "Is life just a game?", what's the best way to rerpond?
May 20, 2016 at 4:06 am (This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 4:07 am by Alex K.)
(May 20, 2016 at 4:01 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: Probably just the religionists in denial. It's ironic yes. The more I think about this the more confused I become. Theist should be confused by their own statements but most don't think deeply enough. I struggle to understand these "great debaters" when they debate the famous Atheists; they all sound so confused and it's horrible. And their lackeys will still say they won. Perhaps it's delusions of grandeur?
I just watched a talk by an ex-homeopath which she gave at the recent German skeptic conference, and she made the striking observation that while she worked as a homeopath (and she's an MD!), she was firmly anchored in a very superficial and "intuitive" mode of thinking. Only when she really engaged skeptics in discussions, trying to debunk their criticisms, did she notice the difference between the actual rigorous and careful arguments they built and the kind of whishy-washy intuitive arguments which are the norm in her former alt-med community. She had always unquestioningly taken that as a valid way of thinking, and is now embarrassed by it.
I'm telling this story because I think it very closely parallels what goes on in religious believer's minds, I think.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
