Do theists need a threat to be moral?

[Whateverist]

There are some humans who aren't born with it. Some have no empathy, no inherent moral compass.

So maybe better they be scared straight than crooked?  Okay Christians, as you were.  Just mind the smiting fist of God then and you and the truly moral people will get along fine.

[The Grand Nudger]

We frequently describe those whose moral or ethical value judgements are unlike our own (or not as compelling as our own, even to them) as "having no moral compass".  That's not actually true, more a convention of speech.

[robvalue]

It is the only possible justification, in my opinion, to using religious threats.

However, I think the collateral damage is not justified. Also, it gives some psycopaths righteous shielding to get away with doing whatever they want.

How exactly society deals with psycopaths is a very difficult subject, but this is a primitive approach and I think we can do better. Their study seems to have progressed a long way, so much so that you can expert help if your child is showing the signs.

Psychopaths can end up being nonviolent people, depending on their nurture and environment.

[Ignorant]

There are some humans who aren't born with it. Some have no empathy, no inherent moral compass.

I suppose that is true [edit: I would say that they have an incomplete moral compass]. Could we say those people are missing an important desire for a full human life?

[robvalue]

It's a very interesting topic I've discussed with people at length.

Below is a very general statement and I'm sure won't apply to all such people.

The best way I came up with to describe it is that life is like a game to a psycopath. They don't especially care about what they are doing, or what they do to people. Or even themselves. Yet they have a generally heightened pleasure/reward system, which acts as a big incentive. For this reason they often find a place at the top of big business, as CEOs, thrilled about the progress they make. And having no empathy means they can be ruthless in their decision making.

So really, life is just different to them. What they want out of it is different. No better or worse, in my opinion, because such terms are purely subjective. That's just how they are. It can of course end up being bad for those around them.

[abaris]

I suppose that is true [edit: I would say that they have an incomplete moral compass]. Could we say those people are missing an important desire for a full human life?

There are sociopaths having next to no empathy. That's a fact. In some cases they're born with the inability to feel compassion, in many cases they are created by abuse in their childhood. Some graduate to become serial offenders, some, funny as that may sound, become CEOs of big companies. Which might not be that surprising, after all.

[Ignorant]

It's a very interesting topic I've discussed with people at length.

Below is a very general statement and I'm sure won't apply to all such people.

The best way I came up with to describe it is that life is like a game to a psycopath. They don't especially care about what they are doing, or what they do to people. Or even themselves. Yet they have a generally heightened pleasure/reward system, which acts as a big incentive. For this reason they often find a place at the top of big business, as CEOs, thrilled about the progress they make. And having no empathy means they can be ruthless in their decision making.

So really, life is just different to them. What they want out of it is different. No better or worse, in my opinion, because such terms are purely subjective. That's just how they are. It can of course end up being bad for those around them.

I appreciate the perspective, Rob!

Shouldn't the bold/underlined part be evidence that, when it does in fact "end up being bad for those around them", their way of acting is not better than some other way of acting?

[Ignorant]

I suppose that is true [edit: I would say that they have an incomplete moral compass]. Could we say those people are missing an important desire for a full human life?

There are sociopaths having next to no empathy. [1] That's a fact. In some cases they're born with the inability to feel compassion, in many cases they are created by abuse in their childhood. [2] Some graduate to become serial offenders, some, funny as that may sound, become CEOs of big companies. [3] Which might not be that surprising, after all. [4]

1) Yes, admittedly I don't quite know what to make of these people.

2) The latter is sad indeed.

3) Too true.

4) Certainly not. More surprising, to me at least, is the apathy towards some of these people which part of our society feels.

[robvalue]

It's a very interesting topic I've discussed with people at length.

Below is a very general statement and I'm sure won't apply to all such people.

The best way I came up with to describe it is that life is like a game to a psycopath. They don't especially care about what they are doing, or what they do to people. Or even themselves. Yet they have a generally heightened pleasure/reward system, which acts as a big incentive. For this reason they often find a place at the top of big business, as CEOs, thrilled about the progress they make. And having no empathy means they can be ruthless in their decision making.

So really, life is just different to them. What they want out of it is different. No better or worse, in my opinion, because such terms are purely subjective. That's just how they are. It can of course end up being bad for those around them.

I appreciate the perspective, Rob!

Shouldn't the bold/underlined part be evidence that, when it does in fact "end up being bad for those around them", their way of acting is not better than some other way of acting?

Well, better is again entirely subjective. It's often not better from the point of view of the well-being of society at large. But they have made no choice to be this way.

In fact I take it fully into account. I don't expect the same behaviour from a psychopath as I would from a normal person. Obviously anyone who is killing people needs to be removed from society, but I don't hold a psychopath morally accountable. They have no morality, in extreme cases. They are amoral.

[Simon Moon]

I don't think so.

They use the same moral sense that nontheists do, they just attribute it to their gods.

As far as I can tell, according to the Bible, it is moral to kill witches (Exodus 22:18). Yet, other than a few Christian Pastors in Africa. the vast majority of Christians would not.