How Many Has God Killed?

[reverendjeremiah]

If a person sees or experiences something, do you automatically decide that this is impossible?

Mohammad was handed the quran by the Angel Gabriel. Surely you should take Islam very serious if you REALLY believe that sentence you just wrote. The followers of David Koresh saw enough to justify their belief that he was the son of God, they even keep going back to visit the site and worship. Surely you are not trying to say that David Koresh could not possibly be the son of god? I personally have had NO experience with a god, even when I asked for it, surely you are not trying to say that my experience is false and impossible.

It is an historic fact that visionaries (scientists, philosophers, inventors, etc.) are often scoffed at before their ideas are accepted.

That has fuck all to do with myths, gods whom you claim answer questions and love us, or religion in general. Nice try, but science is MATERIALISTIC/NATURALISTIC, not theistic or mystic. You, nor your superstitious beliefs, are anywhere NEAR the ballpark of the science visionaries, and to suggest such is egotisitical and deserves to be mocked and scoffed at. Get a fucking education and learn the difference son.

It is often time and reason that will bear out their claims as valid or faulty.

Your superstition is NOT reason, and to tie it up with the scientific method only further proves your incompetence, and therefore justifies why you are obviously superstitious. By the way, Christianity alone has been going a good 1800 or so years. How much more time does it need before we can declare it faulty?

If you say that God is not there, possibilities to reason out the subject will cease.

Fuck you. I was a believer of superstition for 27 straight years, and an atheist for 10. I think 27 years of giving it a chance is 27 years too much time to give it. Now you are begging me to give it another chance? So I give it another, and another, and next thing you know, I wasted my fucking life away trying to convince myself that a day dream can be reality. God and Reason do not belong in the same sentence. Reason actually helps humanity, saves lives, and is responsible for us to hold this conversation right now. God is a fictional character that humans divide up and go at each others throats over...and you are spreading that sickness.

You don't get a chance to prove something unless you participate, experiment, ask, search.

Sure. Show me some scientific tests that I can participate in to experiment the existence of God. Until then, you will have to accept this look from me...

My experience in the God search has yielded remarkable results that I never would have had if I had not asked.

Really? SO you have experiments that have proven god? And you arent sharing them? Lets see the data. Lets see the evidences, lets se what you used for control, and double blind method. If what you say is true, and you have kept up with your documentation, then I HIGHLY suggest that you publish your papers and allow them to go through the gauntlet of the world wide scientific community. If your science is sound, then you will see every single Muslim scientist converting to your religion in a heart beat, as well as Hindu scientists. You will become EXTREMELY popular, being that man who experimentally proved that a loving god exists. You would make headlines, and your work would actually be taught LEGITIMATELY as science in biology class and other fields of the sciences. You would be a living legend.

So lets see your documents ... Im very excited about this!

You lose nothing by trying to understand. It is worth the trouble.

I will soon find out. Im so excited. Its worth the trouble. Lets see your data! I cant believe it that I am talking to a man who is going to become famous worldwide..I'm so excited. Finally, proof that god exists!

[Violet]

Unless the thing that you see teaches you something that you didn't understand before, what good is it?

Plenty. Most of my food I've seen before. Are you trying to tell me that my food isn't good?

Seeing things for seeing sake doesn't mean squat unless it can benfit someone else as much as yourself.

It means a lot more than squat to me

If you can't accept the idea of a miracle, don't ever expect to recognize one if you see it.

What then is the idea of a miracle that I would neither accept its existence or recognize it when I see it?

Haven't you ever had a coincidence happen that really should not have happened.

Yes. There was this one time when an erratic Bulrathi didn't declare war on me after bombing down 3 of their colonies, getting caught stealing their technology, and also hitting a 'you are too big' diplomacy penalty.

And that is why I will never again play on Hard difficulty. It's way too easy. Impossible is the only difficulty for me

You read them in the paper or see them in the news sometimes. Three consecutive holes in one in a single golf game. I've seen this happen twice, as reported by news media. How about the wild ice hockey shot all over the internet last week. The puck flew right through the goalies legs toward the goal and then makes an extreme 45degree swerve right out of the net.

And none of these surprise me. Excellence is what I desire to see. Failure is what I anticipate to see. I consider a non-perfect score a failure.

The world is not all wrapped up with nice neat answers about anything, including religion.

Sure it is. I don't believe all of those answers are correct though.

We have to sift through all kinds of junk to deduce what we believe about anything.

Kinda. We also have to sift between what we see as quite plausible

If you have only seen the garbage side of religions, then I don't blame any of you for rejecting anything I say.

And I've also seen good side to religions. Do you blame me?

In my history, 57 years, I have seen more garbage than anything else. Since there is so much of it happening, I deduce that it is here to teach us something.

In my 18 years I have seen plenty of garbage and expect nothing but garbage

[RDK]

If our world was perfect in every way, we would not have the experience of choosing the better. We can love or we can hate. We make that choice. Which one is better? Could we value something that we have most fully cherished unless we risk having it taken away? Let me simplify. Here is one of those instructive visions that I mentioned before; Imagine the best pie that you could ever eat. When does this pie taste the best to you? After you have eaten a pack full meal, or if you haven't eaten anything for a week. The pie does not change, but your value for it surely does. In other words, you don't appreciate the pie unless you are away from it for a while.
This second vision adds to the explanation of the first; If you had a box of the best soap cleaner that you could buy, how would you test it out. Wouldn't you try to find the dirtiest thing around to test its worth?
God wants to show us that He loves us. He has designed the world to be the dirtiest place imaginable so that we can value just how much love He has with which to clean us up. It is all a matter of appreciation. We would not value a healing unless we were first hurt. We would not value a family unless we had been left alone. Yes the hardships on this earth are more than some of us can bear. But the end promises to make up for all the losses. There is no trial on this earth that is not common to man.

[Cinjin]

yeah, see ... this is what I just kept getting from RDK way back on page 3 of this thread. Endless pointless rhetoric about his ridiculous theories on the role god plays in our lives. The man doesn't respond to your questions, he doesn't pay any attention to the valid rebuttals .... he's just sitting there spewing out the same old tired SHIT we've all heard a thousand times.



If jesus tastes like lies than RDK tastes like stupid.

[RDK]

It is truely a shame that some of you have gotten into the bog of most of organized Christanity. It is full of people making money and fame from a good portion of it. If you have had negative experiences, as I have, then you are not anxious to step right back into the do. Who could experience the love of God when you are in a position to recognize the faults around it. My arguement never was with God originally. It was with all of those issues about the inconsistancies of all of the teachings, and the unfairness in the world that I saw. Ideally, there should only be one true teaching and one true faith. So, it appears that God is working against himself to teach all of this. Was the design of a deceiver permitted to bring about the deception that the world experiences? Of course, God has designed all of this to bring about these situations for a purpose. It's here isn't it , this messed up world that we experience? We can either get angry about it or search for an answer that can make sense.
As far as publishing anything, I already have a site on this subject which compares Bible scripture for scripture, comparing the opposites so to speak. It is not very popular with anyone. God's miracles can only happen with love as their source. People pray too often just to benefit themselves. The best things occur when love is the motivation behind them. If we could just pray every bad thing away, God's ultimate plan could not happen. If I don't share these experiences with anyone, how will you know? Please do not view these things as lies. I would not share anything about this unless someone else could benefit.

[reverendjeremiah]

RDK - You are now preaching. You are not participating in a discussion, you are rambling on DISPITE the discussion.

Preaching is to break the rules here on this forum.

Might I suggest that you participate in a discussion or stop wasting our precious time...

Something tells me you are going to ignore this and your next post is going to be another rambling, off topic preaching.

---

RDK..SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Thats it. RDK is going on IGNORE for me..goodbye you aggrivating pissant

[Ace Otana]

We would not value a healing unless we were first hurt. We would not value a family unless we had been left alone. Yes the hardships on this earth are more than some of us can bear.

What about children who develop cancer? New born's with serious disorders? Types of worms that dig their way into sheep's eyes and slowly and painfully kills it. Virtually all wild animals die horrific and frightening deaths. A god being all knowing, surely could of thought of better ways to help us distinguish beauty from ugly, and good from bad. Why do children have to lose their lives before they've lived them? Where is the lesson in that? Why do entire families die in car accidents? Where is the lesson in that?
Still-births....why?
Nice god you have there.

God wants to show us that He loves us.

By giving our loves ones cancer? Tsunami? Earthquakes? This is love is it?

But the end promises to make up for all the losses.

A promise is one thing, a kept promise is quite another. It's strangely convenient that you'll only get the reward once you are long dead. Thing is, when dead, you can't come back and tell us that it was all a fucking lie. That's the convenience of it all.

Your god is a lie. Bad things happen because this is the natural world. The natural world does not distinguish between good or bad. Pleasant or horrific. It is the way it is and we are nothing but biological specks trying to survive in a very hostile environment. We are part of the natural world and we are no more special or important than anything else in the universe. Get used to it.

[RDK]

It is O.K. to refer to anything I present as just mindless words. It is not difficult to understand any of this. You do not have to be a scholar to figure this out. It is easy to dismiss something as not true if it is not what you want from the start. If I appear to puzzle you too much, I am sorry. It should be good news to you that there can still be a loving God out there who wants to relate to you. If I can say all the crazy stuff about this subject in front of all of you, that should be some kind of consolation to you that He can do the same for you if you want. I don't get angry at your resistance to these things. It takes time to get used to the idea that something more might exist that you are unfamiliar with. As far as science is concerned, too many things still exist in our universe that haven't been explained yet. We don't yet have a tool that I know of to grip the invisible. Concepts are realities of the mind!

[Ace Otana]

It is O.K. to refer to anything I present as just mindless words.

Most rational minds would, and with good reason.

It is not difficult to understand any of this.

It is not through understanding that we have failed, it is through yours. You fail to comprehend a universe that exists without a god.

It is easy to dismiss something as not true if it is not what you want from the start.

It's not about what I want to be true. It's about what is real, what is reality. Religion has given no reason to be considered anywhere remotely as true. So rightly, it is rejected.

If I appear to puzzle you too much, I am sorry.

You've done no such thing.

If I can say all the crazy stuff about this subject in front of all of you, that should be some kind of consolation to you that He can do the same for you if you want.

I'd like to remain sane, thank you very much.

As far as science is concerned, too many things still exist in our universe that haven't been explained yet.

True, but never will it jump to baseless assertions. That's just silly.

We don't yet have a tool that I know of to grip the invisible.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.

Concepts are realities of the mind!

Reality remains the same, only our perception of it changes.

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Don't worry, Rev. He's no challenge.
He didn't even bother to refute my points in my previous post.

[RDK]

Prove to me please that God has killed anyone. What literature will you use? Will you use the details of a book that you don't believe to prove any point? If I share a method to contact a God whom you do not know, how can any of you find fault with that? I have been speaking about knowledge that I have been shown, and not a single one of you can refute my evidence. Ideas are not tangible. They are viewed best when curiosity and imagination can roam, and show you things that man has not even dreamed of. You say these things are not true? Then use that scientific method you like to prove to me that it is not possible. This is a harsh reality. Common ground, at least so far, has not been firmly established. Ideas of the mind must be perceived and analyzed there, where physical laws are not bound. I understand the trepidation that many of you feel about a new way to prove things. I know that it must be rocky ground to stand on, and that can make you angry. This is not a pride thing on my part to demonstrate some sort of superiority. I did not figure this stuff on my own. Yhe majority was vision or direct revelation. Go ahead, say it aint so! Prove me wrong. You will have to use the logic/concept method to understand any of the words I have spoken. Anything that you see around you is only a by-product of that which you can not yet fathom. You have only looked at the physical to remedy the realm of the unseen.