People are scared and I don't blame them.

[Minimalist]

I understand that. 
But, you're still speaking of the need to recognize that we need a leader/guide from a god that only exists in paper tomes, and in the minds of men.

People are telling you that they're not interested.

Ok I want to clarify , the original post was in a Muslim forum. So I thought it captured my thoughts on this issue well and shared it here.

We are going to have be truthful. We cannot tell people, we don't want "Islam" to be implemented, yet we have to be honest and say "we cannot say the Islam presented by our religious leaders and institutions is the true Islam".

There is no true islam.  It's all bullshit like every other religion invented by humanity.  You need to face that.  You are wasting your fucking time.

[Sheed1980]

I posted this on another forum:

Salam

1. Muslims are a threat to every culture out there and secular law, because, they seek to replace the order of humans with that of the Divine order while other religions and people have their own culture and also take on cultures of others and make their own rules, as well as implement secular law.  Christianity and Judaism has many of the same original rules of Islam, but, their people don't seek to implement them in today's world.  This is why in Surahs that advocate these teachings it's also emphasized not to fear people but fear God, not fear a blame of a blamer, and be sincere to God in his love and firm against the disbelieving people.  Every people abandoned this duty but obviously we cannot.   To be honest, we are in between rock and hard place.  Without an Imam present among us,  the laws of Islam are distorted to a degree yet it's not like we can ignore the laws of God as a society, we believe in the wisdom and teachings of the Shariah.  God knew we would have to endure, which is why, when you read about the Surahs teaching these things, it's emphasized a lot to have patience, to help God's cause, to be firm and seek assistance of God against the disbelieving people, to judge by what God revealed and refer all matters of dispute in society to God and his Messenger, and that we ought to no take others as authority besides those who God approved of. We are in a critical point and we desperately need the of the Imam of time to clarify the teachings of Islam.  We will not establish justice without him and we will not unite the world on Islam without him. At the same time, we are lost of words to defend every law of Islam. This is again why insight is needed on our part and not simply "we hear and obey" as in we follow God, but we need to truly perceive wisdom and defend the religion on insights from God.  
2. Even though it's a minority, there is too much of a significant minority that believe in violence and terrorism.  They see the ideals they strive for not to serve humans but as an end in themselves in which they are willing to sacrifice human lives for.  I personally am scared of this minority growing and becoming even more of a significant portion of Muslims. I am afraid because I see we don't guard against Iblis and his waswas, we take for granted for what we whispers to us as Islam, and people take zeal and extremism to be a sign of piety and being religious. I'm afraid of these people growing and becoming more significant, so I don't blame people not aware of the teachings of Islam for fearing it. I know Islam teaches against the path of these extreme idiotic zealous fanatics, but Satan has his way of making people ignore the clearest and brightest of teachings in God's book. 
3.  Some of the laws Muslims and their scholars advocate do go against the human nature in reality, that they truly are immoral.  People don't understand why we don't give up these morals and are scared of our mindset that is not willing to budge an iota of gram with what every human knows is true of human morality and dignity.  This is because we are in state that prefers following the structure of authority in our society rather then enjoining truth. There are some matters that Quran has clarified but yet we abandon...and we don't like accepting these teachings now particularly because the west advocates them while we don't. 

We are going to have be truthful. We cannot tell people, we don't want "Islam" to be implemented, yet we have to be honest and say "we cannot say the Islam presented by our religious leaders and institutions is the true Islam".
We await the Mahdi with a waiting of one who wishes to prepare society for him and is not willing to budge on the divine order that the final Messenger came with.  We believe in theocracy, and we believe in God's laws and implementation of his teachings.
We know the perfect implementation will only occur by Imam Mahdi. But society has to love to come to God and his guardian.
People are scared and I don't blame them. Without Imam Mahdi appearing, Islam on overwhelming majority scale can create huge injustice in how it has been passed down to us. It's carriers have not truly carried it and misrepresent it's teachings.  
I'm scared myself of Shariah become dominant in the world without Imam Mahdi. We see in some places women getting raped and then when coming out, they get accused of zina and lashed, and are punished or if married, are stoned to death. This is just one example. Imagine on a world scale this happens. Are societies going to stop rape because they wear the outer cloak of Islam?
People are scared, because, they are stuck between a rock and hard place. Deep down inside they feel Islam will become dominate as people gravitate to the idea of submitting to God over that of human orders and authority.  Yet they realize that the people attributing teachings to God have attributed quite a few of ugly things and things they aren't willing to budge on.
The mess will only be solved by recognizing we need a leader and guide from God. The remaining one of God's chosen ones, the inheritor of all knowledge and wisdom revealed by God, and the true seer of wisdom and justice.

It's tough sometimes trying to explain to people and show the world what our beautiful religion of Islam is supposed to be about and how we should be living it like our holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh taught us to. We as Muslims today, especially here in America face so much hatred and stereotype due to what terrorists who have hatred and a falsely conceived concept of how we should live our religion, especially when they do evil and hatred things in the name of Allah and Islam. Islam as the world's fastest growing religion has more hatred towards it because of misconceived views of the world due to the false teachings of hatred that come from a small percentage of worldwide Muslims. In no way am I saying Muslims are perfect. We are human beings and just like all other religions there are good people and bad people in Islam as well. When people misunderstand what a religion is based on and how it is supposed to be lived correctly, as soon as one single bad thing happens by someone who is Muslim, people wanna say that's what the religion teaches us to do. When they don't study the truth of the religion people are drawn to the hatred of bad Muslims and their cultures by a single brush-stroked painting of Islamaphobes and the media and assume that is what Islam is about. So yes there are bad people that are Muslims, I don't disagree with that. But there are more good people who follow the true teachings of Islam and the lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. This is why God tells us as Muslims He will judge us on Judgment Day as well. We're human beings. But the thing is u can't base a religion on what a small percentage of its so called followers do when the much larger percentage of that same religion live a much better lifestyle as commanded by God in our Holy Qur'an. Just like nobody can or would have the right to say Christianity is a racist or hateful religion because of what the KKK, and so called Pastor Tony Smith, and Islamaphobist Brigitte Gabrielle who call themselves faithful Christians do. Nor could anyone say Judaism is a hatred judgmental religion because of the hatred that Pamela Geller puts toward Islam with the excuse of constitutional free speech. So my point being, not even considering all the other human beings who are not of the 3 Abrahamic faiths (i.e. Hindus, Atheists, and all other religions), but when a Christian or Jew murders or robs someone, or rapes a woman or child or beats their wife, or any other hatred evil act towards their fellow human being, which is sad to say happens quite often in every city of the world, the media and most people of the world just look at them and say "There's a lot of BAD PEOPLE out there or they made a big mistake." But when a Muslim does the same thing they wanna say "Why does ISLAM teach Muslims to do these things?" They totally turn a human act of evil from a SINGLE PERSON or small GROUP onto an entire worldwide religion. Just as when the Cardinals of the Catholic church were performing that horrible child molestation. But Catholicism as a world religion still stands tall. Those men were just bad people who happened to be part of that religion. I give all praise to God for blessing me to be Muslim. I love my Lord and love my religion. And by no means am I saying everyone has a hatred view towards Islam. I have seen and heard people saying that Muslims all over the world are some of the best, friendliest, and most kind people they have ever known. It just seems that it is so easy to assume that Islam is about evil and hatred when the media and those who do have hatred towards us show that a single Muslim has done wrong or has hatred in their soul as a person. So what people around the world need to do is study the true teachings of Islam which are in the Qur'an, and the true lifestyle of our Prophet Muhammad pbuh to see what Islam is really about. And what we as Muslims need to do is live our lives the right way and follow the teachings of the Qur'an and our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. And as the world's fastest growing religion people around the world can see true, peaceful Islam on the rise, growing bigger around the world everyday, flushing out the false hatred of our religion, and see that Islam is truly a religion of love and peace.

[account_inactive]

There is no true islam.  It's all bullshit like every other religion invented by humanity.  You need to face that.  You are wasting your fucking time.

He's brainwashed.

[LastPoet]

The post was about why I understand Islamphobia exists and is becoming widespread.

It is not the lack of belief that kills other people with machine guns. It is not the lack of belief that makes mental patients excuse to blow themselves amidst innocent people. Your religion is the problem and if you care for your allah, then you should start there, not with those that do not believe, neither kill themselves and other innocents in the name of your vaunted beliefs. This is where you can fight, not throwing your fantasies to us, firmly grasped at the harsh reality.

[LastPoet]

It is not the lack of belief that drives innocent people to cross the Mediterranean. It is the belief that they are true believers™. And they send people by boat, dying in droves, only to blame the receiving contries for being afraid?

[The Grand Nudger]

This Us vs Them shit is going to get you all axed, Mystic.  In case you hadn't noticed, "allah" isn't exactly all-powerful in the face of a drone. Bigoted nitwits won't be satisfied until there aren't any of you left, and they have all the cool toys.

These are the thoughts of a pragtmatist with no magical abilities, disregard if you like, but I have *some experience in this regard.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If the muslim community stuck to strictly benign religious activities most people would ignore them.  The problem is that some muslims want to use Islam as a rallying point to push their political agenda and try to get a bigger share of power from the white West.  That ticks white Americans off to no end because they like being in charge and will resort to violence to keep it.  

The worse that the muslim fanatics can do for the foreseeable future is to engage in sporadic terrorist activities that kill a few people once in a while.  They are more dangerous to other muslims in certain muslim lands.  Political collaborators in Western countries aid and abet the muslim fanatics by giving them arms and money.  They also flood their Western countries with countless thousands of potential foreign enemies.

[Mystic]

I posted this on another forum:

Salam

1. Muslims are a threat to every culture out there and secular law, because, they seek to replace the order of humans with that of the Divine order while other religions and people have their own culture and also take on cultures of others and make their own rules, as well as implement secular law.  Christianity and Judaism has many of the same original rules of Islam, but, their people don't seek to implement them in today's world.  This is why in Surahs that advocate these teachings it's also emphasized not to fear people but fear God, not fear a blame of a blamer, and be sincere to God in his love and firm against the disbelieving people.  Every people abandoned this duty but obviously we cannot.   To be honest, we are in between rock and hard place.  Without an Imam present among us,  the laws of Islam are distorted to a degree yet it's not like we can ignore the laws of God as a society, we believe in the wisdom and teachings of the Shariah.  God knew we would have to endure, which is why, when you read about the Surahs teaching these things, it's emphasized a lot to have patience, to help God's cause, to be firm and seek assistance of God against the disbelieving people, to judge by what God revealed and refer all matters of dispute in society to God and his Messenger, and that we ought to no take others as authority besides those who God approved of. We are in a critical point and we desperately need the of the Imam of time to clarify the teachings of Islam.  We will not establish justice without him and we will not unite the world on Islam without him. At the same time, we are lost of words to defend every law of Islam. This is again why insight is needed on our part and not simply "we hear and obey" as in we follow God, but we need to truly perceive wisdom and defend the religion on insights from God.  
2. Even though it's a minority, there is too much of a significant minority that believe in violence and terrorism.  They see the ideals they strive for not to serve humans but as an end in themselves in which they are willing to sacrifice human lives for.  I personally am scared of this minority growing and becoming even more of a significant portion of Muslims. I am afraid because I see we don't guard against Iblis and his waswas, we take for granted for what we whispers to us as Islam, and people take zeal and extremism to be a sign of piety and being religious. I'm afraid of these people growing and becoming more significant, so I don't blame people not aware of the teachings of Islam for fearing it. I know Islam teaches against the path of these extreme idiotic zealous fanatics, but Satan has his way of making people ignore the clearest and brightest of teachings in God's book. 
3.  Some of the laws Muslims and their scholars advocate do go against the human nature in reality, that they truly are immoral.  People don't understand why we don't give up these morals and are scared of our mindset that is not willing to budge an iota of gram with what every human knows is true of human morality and dignity.  This is because we are in state that prefers following the structure of authority in our society rather then enjoining truth. There are some matters that Quran has clarified but yet we abandon...and we don't like accepting these teachings now particularly because the west advocates them while we don't. 

We are going to have be truthful. We cannot tell people, we don't want "Islam" to be implemented, yet we have to be honest and say "we cannot say the Islam presented by our religious leaders and institutions is the true Islam".
We await the Mahdi with a waiting of one who wishes to prepare society for him and is not willing to budge on the divine order that the final Messenger came with.  We believe in theocracy, and we believe in God's laws and implementation of his teachings.
We know the perfect implementation will only occur by Imam Mahdi. But society has to love to come to God and his guardian.
People are scared and I don't blame them. Without Imam Mahdi appearing, Islam on overwhelming majority scale can create huge injustice in how it has been passed down to us. It's carriers have not truly carried it and misrepresent it's teachings.  
I'm scared myself of Shariah become dominant in the world without Imam Mahdi. We see in some places women getting raped and then when coming out, they get accused of zina and lashed, and are punished or if married, are stoned to death. This is just one example. Imagine on a world scale this happens. Are societies going to stop rape because they wear the outer cloak of Islam?
People are scared, because, they are stuck between a rock and hard place. Deep down inside they feel Islam will become dominate as people gravitate to the idea of submitting to God over that of human orders and authority.  Yet they realize that the people attributing teachings to God have attributed quite a few of ugly things and things they aren't willing to budge on.
The mess will only be solved by recognizing we need a leader and guide from God. The remaining one of God's chosen ones, the inheritor of all knowledge and wisdom revealed by God, and the true seer of wisdom and justice.

It's tough sometimes trying to explain to people and show the world what our beautiful religion of Islam is supposed to be about and how we should be living it like our holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh taught us to. We as Muslims today, especially here in America face so much hatred and stereotype due to what terrorists who have hatred and a falsely conceived concept of how we should live our religion, especially when they do evil and hatred things in the name of Allah and Islam. Islam as the world's fastest growing religion has more hatred towards it because of misconceived views of the world due to the false teachings of hatred that come from a small percentage of worldwide Muslims. In no way am I saying Muslims are perfect. We are human beings and just like all other religions there are good people and bad people in Islam as well. When people misunderstand what a religion is based on and how it is supposed to be lived correctly, as soon as one single bad thing happens by someone who is Muslim, people wanna say that's what the religion teaches us to do. When they don't study the truth of the religion people are drawn to the hatred of bad Muslims and their cultures by a single brush-stroked painting of Islamaphobes and the media and assume that is what Islam is about. So yes there are bad people that are Muslims, I don't disagree with that. But there are more good people who follow the true teachings of Islam and the lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. This is why God tells us as Muslims He will judge us on Judgment Day as well. We're human beings. But the thing is u can't base a religion on what a small percentage of its so called followers do when the much larger percentage of that same religion live a much better lifestyle as commanded by God in our Holy Qur'an. Just like nobody can or would have the right to say Christianity is a racist or hateful religion because of what the KKK, and so called Pastor Tony Smith, and Islamaphobist Brigitte Gabrielle who call themselves faithful Christians do. Nor could anyone say Judaism is a hatred judgmental religion because of the hatred that Pamela Geller puts toward Islam with the excuse of constitutional free speech. So my point being, not even considering all the other human beings who are not of the 3 Abrahamic faiths (i.e. Hindus, Atheists, and all other religions), but when a Christian or Jew murders or robs someone, or rapes a woman or child or beats their wife, or any other hatred evil act towards their fellow human being, which is sad to say happens quite often in every city of the world, the media and most people of the world just look at them and say "There's a lot of BAD PEOPLE out there or they made a big mistake." But when a Muslim does the same thing they wanna say "Why does ISLAM teach Muslims to do these things?" They totally turn a human act of evil from a SINGLE PERSON or small GROUP onto an entire worldwide religion. Just as when the Cardinals of the Catholic church were performing that horrible child molestation. But Catholicism as a world religion still stands tall. Those men were just bad people who happened to be part of that religion. I give all praise to God for blessing me to be Muslim. I love my Lord and love my religion. And by no means am I saying everyone has a hatred view towards Islam. I have seen and heard people saying that Muslims all over the world are some of the best, friendliest, and most kind people they have ever known. It just seems that it is so easy to assume that Islam is about evil and hatred when the media and those who do have hatred towards us show that a single Muslim has done wrong or has hatred in their soul as a person. So what people around the world need to do is study the true teachings of Islam which are in the Qur'an, and the true lifestyle of our Prophet Muhammad pbuh to see what Islam is really about. And what we as Muslims need to do is live our lives the right way and follow the teachings of the Qur'an and our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. And as the world's fastest growing religion people around the world can see true, peaceful Islam on the rise, growing bigger around the world everyday, flushing out the false hatred of our religion, and see that Islam is truly a religion of love and peace.

Every human teaches love and peace in theory, but interpretation of that differs. Islam is the best way to implement love and peace individually, family wise, and society wise in my belief and I trying to find that true Islam. Eventually as well the whole world will benefit from the perfect Islam and be united on the rope of God from humans and his words.  

However Islam does NOT make sense without belief in the unseen. It revolves and is oriented around that. 

These people can't understand  it because they lack faith in the unseen. They themselves are unseen, so essentially they are denying themselves and neglecting their true reality.

The link with the divine is the greatest gift we have, not valuing that link as it ought to be valued, is not forgivable in Islam.

The level of sincerity required to God is higher in Islam then all other religions. What I mean is the bear minimum is higher standard. And the duties towards others and society is also higher. 

The heart of it though is the love of the near kin of the Messenger. To truly recognize who they are and appreciate the message through them.

And to that, I find the umma is rebellious, in that they prefer to follow their systematic approach and structure they see part of their religion, to submission to God and love of his chosen ones.

That is the good news he gives to his servants such as those who believe and do good deeds, say: no recompense do I ask for it except the love in the near kin (of the Messenger) and whoever does good we increase them therein, verily God is Forgiving, Appreciative.

Love would of been that path the nation took to appreciate God and his Messenger and the favor bestowed upon them through his revelation, it would of reminded of the unseen stations meant for us to tread, it would of lead the people towards recognizing the guidance meant for them.

We broken the trusts of the Messenger "I am leaving you two weighty trusts, Quran and my family....."

[Veritas_Vincit]

This post explains so much. Mystic you are totally brainwashed. Islam isn't beautiful, it's an ugly, barbaric Bronze Age tribal religion and the world will be better off without it.

[Mystic]

This post explains so much. Mystic you are totally brainwashed. Islam isn't beautiful, it's an ugly, barbaric Bronze Age tribal religion and the world will be better off without it.

Do you believe in objective beauty or do you like to simply express your subjective perceptions of beauty which you have in which free-will played no role in you deciding?