Refuting Christians with their Own Bible

[SteveII]

It comes down to whether something is good because so and so said it is good, or because it's actually moral. In the first case it's circular and meaningless; in the second case, the authority is irrelevant. I figured out morality just fine on my own without having to read it in an ancient book. And it's no surprise that (nice) Christians ignore huge swathes of the supposed morality taught by their own book.

Good point. Christians would believe in the latter. Something is good because it is moral. God did not decree something moral. Because it is part of his essence to be moral, and he has made us aware of some of what that means, we are on good grounds for objective morality.

[Minimalist]

Ah, perhaps then you can answer this question?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

[SofaKingHigh]

It comes down to whether something is good because so and so said it is good, or because it's actually moral. In the first case it's circular and meaningless; in the second case, the authority is irrelevant. I figured out morality just fine on my own without having to read it in an ancient book. And it's no surprise that (nice) Christians ignore huge swathes of the supposed morality taught by their own book.

Good point. Christians would believe in the latter. Something is good because it is moral. God did not decree something moral. Because it is part of his essence to be moral, and he has made us aware of some of what that means, we are on good grounds for objective morality.

So, for fear of repeating myself, would you consider genocide to be a moral act?

[SteveII]

Plato asked "how ought I to live my life?". Your system of morality will answer that question so it's important to pick the right ontology. 

Christians believe that moral perfection is a property of God. God does not choose to be morally perfect, he is because it's part of the essence of being God. Because we are made in his image, we are born being aware of basic right and wrong. God reveals this morality though revelation (both Old and New Testaments). Humans encounter many situations that are not found in the Bible, so basic principles of morality are extracted and used to apply to the new situation. Is that process flawless, no.

So, genocide is morally perfect?

Is it moral for humans to decide to commit genocide? No.

[SofaKingHigh]

So, genocide is morally perfect?

Is it moral for humans to decide to commit genocide? No.

That wasn't my question.

[Crossless2.0]

So, genocide is morally perfect?

Is it moral for humans to decide to commit genocide? No.

Is it moral for God to order genocide? And is it immoral for his followers to disobey the order?

[Veritas_Vincit]

So Steve you believe in Divine Command Theory?

(IE whatever God does or says is moral regardless of what it is, simply by virtue of the fact that God said or did it.)

[SteveII]

Lol!

Then you have armies of nice Christians trying to explain to the psycopath why he should ignore almost everything he's reading, after telling him to go read it.

Confusing?

Not really. Paul provides the escape hatch for Christians to ignore those parts of the Bible they find embarrassing.

What do you mean?

[SteveII]

You should care. Isn't it your goal to show all the feeble-minded Christians how wrong they are? Shouldn't you know what it is they believe in before you decimate them with your rhetorical and logical skills you developed by reading some atheist blog and a couple of YouTube videos? How else will the 'truth triumph'?

Yes, if most of the world hadn't been indoctrinated, brainwashed, duped, conned, deluded, retarded, divided and stultified by religion then I would have no reason to care about Bronze Age mythology and the sayings of some Palestinian hippy carpenter any more than about Zeus, Apollo, Odin or any other ancient mythologies.

Unfortunately, many people are gullible, many people are not good at critical thinking, many people don't question the belief systems they were brought up with.

Unfortunately we do live in a world torn apart by religion, where religion holds back our civilisation at every step.

So yes, in that sense you are correct, I do think it's worth understanding what the Bible says in exactly the same way as it is worth understanding the tactics of a con artist, so that when you are faced with it you aren't duped, and can expose it for what it is: bullshit.

Probably should start by reading John and then the epistles. That should give you the basics so you can better answer the gullible. Read carefully, take notes. If you don't understand it, read a commentary that can help you. You will need to understand it completely if the 'truth is to triumph'.

[SofaKingHigh]

So, genocide is morally perfect?

Is it moral for humans to decide to commit genocide? No.

Please answer the question I asked, not the question you want to answer.