People are scared and I don't blame them.

[robvalue]

When it comes to children, I feel that teaching them how to think is the most important thing. Making them aware of religions is absolutely fine in my opinion. Shielding them will probably cause more problems than it will solve. They're going to come across it eventually.

I'm never having children, but if I did, I'd explain the popular kind of beliefs, and then I'd explore them along with my child. I'd allow them to ask the questions themselves, and work through it all. I would give my opinion when asked, along with the reasons. Personally, I wouldn't beat down on religion, I'd stick to the facts as much as possible.

My parents (shit though they have been in other ways) did nurture my critical thinking when I was young. They didn't even mention religion to me, as far as I can remember. They didn't tell me it even existed, and certainly gave no opinion either way. I discovered it for myself when I encountered it in school. This was back when teachers were allowed to force everyone to pray and such in assembly.

As an unprogrammed five year old, I saw through it immediately, and that was that. I don't think I even went home and asked my parents about it. I felt no need.

[Joods]

Agreed, Rob. My children know about religion. They also know how I feel about it. My stepsons were both in an after-school program called Release Time, which I found out was a christian based program and had bible-based activities. If they were my birth sons, they never would have been in that program to begin with. I felt it was a violation of the separation between church and state - religious program offered by a public school, where the teachers who ran the program were getting their paychecks from tax payer money.

[account_inactive]

This was back when teachers were allowed to force everyone to pray and such in assembly.

I attended an officially non-denominational primary school for a couple of years before moving area. It was majority Catholic though from what I can remember. Sadly the teachers would force everyone to pray, they sung hymns in assembly and religious folk would visit the school.

Safe to say, I spent quite a bit of time in the head teachers office for refusing. What they did probably wasn't legal in the first place but meh. I didn't bother complaining to anyone as it didn't really cross my mind at the time.

[RozKek]

---

Now, I've lurked this thread, I like it a lot, and I yet again observed a pattern among theists; the ones I've seen always seem to be clinging onto a meaning and purpose to life and extend it further out so everything must have a higher purpose or meaning.

Anyway, on a more relevant note, this is mostly directed to MK. So I used to be a muslim around 2 years ago alright and I am familiar with true dreams, they are short and precise, more common among believers. And my dad was raised in a mosque, he had read the Qur'an at least 50 times (he was old, funnily enough, he stopped being religious/a muslim and mentioned some barbaric stuff in the Qur'an like cutting the hands of a thief off but he still believed in Adam and Eve etc.) The role my dad plays in this is he had a book to interpret dreams. I had a short and precise dream, it was a good dream, made me feel good. I was me, in my room, I died and the next moment I was looking at a garden, I was in heaven. Thereafter I saw my dad when I was in my "soul form" floating around, he was in his room reading a book as usual and he saw me. The dream ended there. It was short and precise and made me feel better,  that is considered a true dream in islamic terms.
When I woke up I went to my dad and he interpreted the dream, he said it was a good sign and he was happy. I became an atheist after not too long because I can tell all that bs has no meaning to it, it all originates in my brain, there's nothing holy to it.

The description of a true dream fits my dream. 

Now tell me, how does an atheist go to heaven?

---

I took joy in reading that; apologies. Even if it wasn't directed to me.

But I needed to comment with what I believe. Dreams are all about symbolism. Is the heaven you saw was truly heaven? maybe the garden in your dream had a total different meaning, your floating soul too meant something else? 

Dreams mean different stuff to each person, a goat in my dream doesn't mean the same thing your dream:

-Why don't the "soul" representation means that you won't be present in paradise? maybe it means that you're a mere ghost in that place; actually -and try to draw this image in your head- seeing yourself as a floating soul in a certain place, can totally symbolize this exact picture: your ghost haunts that place; wish to be in that place, but you will never be in that place; for you are a mere ghost; mere soul.
Maybe your dad, being in the room and seeing your "ghost form" floating around, means that he saw you slip into atheism and lose faith? the book in his hand had something to do with your transformation; too.

But notice: I would never give you my interpretation to be a 100% correct scenario; your father -just like so many humans- made that mistake, and built a leap of faith on mere line that could be a hoax; one mistake that is indeed fatal. 

Never would I also give my utter complete word that this is a true interpretation. BTW I don't use any books.

Of course... It's all about interpretations isn't it? That's what makes religions such a shitfest, you can interpret it in many different ways so you can deceive whoever you want, doesn't take much to realise it. 

People say religions have an answer for everything (quite shitty answers), that isn't because they're god's wise words, that's because they're constructed in such a way to fill everyones needs.

[WinterHold]

Of course... It's all about interpretations isn't it? That's what makes religions such a shitfest, you can interpret it in many different ways so you can deceive whoever you want, doesn't take much to realise it. 

People say religions have an answer for everything (quite shitty answers), that isn't because they're god's wise words, that's because they're constructed in such a way to fill everyones needs.

Any philosophy or ideology can  mean something else; something unique depending on who you are, that is one human feature to differ and vary.


So many variables take a role in the process of interpretation; and for the brain being a "closed box" and since we can't read minds, it's just hard to give the preacher any trust or any "benefit of the doubt";  you might grasp some of the variables that led to a certain interpretation, but never would you be sure.

Maybe it is supposed to be like this, vague and misty?
Life is a test; RozKek. So it should be like this.

That's why you get the phrase "Person X had lost his way".

[robvalue]

If life is a test, the guy running it is a sick fuck and he can go impale himself on his own depravity.

Maybe it's a test, maybe not. Either way, I'll just think for myself rather than figuring out what some voyeur might want me to do.

[Cyberman]

As I've said before:

If the sweetest, kindest and most perfect woman I ever knew had to die just as some sort of test for me, then fuck that god, fuck its test and quite frankly fuck anyone suicidal enough to suggest it to my face.

[RozKek]

---

Of course... It's all about interpretations isn't it? That's what makes religions such a shitfest, you can interpret it in many different ways so you can deceive whoever you want, doesn't take much to realise it. 

People say religions have an answer for everything (quite shitty answers), that isn't because they're god's wise words, that's because they're constructed in such a way to fill everyones needs.

---

Any philosophy or ideology can  mean something else; something unique depending on who you are, that is one human feature to differ and vary.


So many variables take a role in the process of interpretation; and for the brain being a "closed box" and since we can't read minds, it's just hard to give the preacher any trust or any "benefit of the doubt";  you might grasp some of the variables that led to a certain interpretation, but never would you be sure.

Maybe it is supposed to be like this, vague and misty?
Life is a test; RozKek. So it should be like this.

That's why you get the phrase "Person X had lost his way".

Or maybe it's vague and misty because it's a fucking shitfest? That's the problem with religions, too many "maybies" and too much interpretation. Did Allah construct the religion in a vague way to mislead some people so he can fry them in hell, or doesn't he know how to express himself?

The dream I had was short and precise and it made me feel good. According to islam dreams from Iblis are supposed to either deceive you or make you feel sad but they aren't short and precise like mine was. Keyword: precise, it was quite precise and detailed, therefore interpretations shouldn't be a problem.

So now I'm going to sit here and wonder how an atheist can go to heaven. Or maybe one of you are going to write beautiful poetry about how I'm going to become a muslim again. Looking forward to my four wives and jews hiding behind talking trees.

Don't worry guys, when I get in I'll make sure to get vip tickets for all of you

[RozKek]

As I've said before:

If the sweetest, kindest and most perfect woman I ever knew had to die just as some sort of test for me, then fuck that god, fuck its test and quite frankly fuck anyone suicidal enough to suggest it to my face.

He's so merciful that he's going to take away that perfect woman resulting in you turning away from religion then burn you in hell. 

I mean, really. Which dumb fuck would turn to religion claiming every fucked up shit done to you is god's will? But it's okay. It's just a test.

[Cyberman]

That might make a reasonable case, or at least one I might find difficult to defend against. Tragically, however, I've been an atheist from even before I found there was a word for it.