How Much Evidence Will It Take You To Believe In God???

[Expired]

Any evidence would be a start.

QFT


What ever happened to that "no preaching" rule?  That was a good one.

As we know, they're not known for sticking to rules, not even the ones in the good book.

[Cyberman]

Proving that AF Staff are more powerful than any god.

[pocaracas]

Excuse me... I'm going to quote you, but will remove all font formatting.


Edit: Damn... that's a big ass wall of text... hiding it all away!

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Greetings! fellow Citizens of atheism and theism, discussions Atheist Forum.
The Question is, how much evidence will it take you to believe in Gods existence?

Evidence... any.
Philosophical arguments... none.

Will you be open to the evidence and do you want to find God?

If we are talking about evidence, it will talk for itself, no need to be open to it.
I want to find reality... if that encompasses a god, then so be it.

Are you interested?

Meh...

Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

Are you absolutely sure you exist?

If not, then is it not possible that there is a God?

Sure...
It's also possible that there is a Leprechaun, a Fairy, A Loch Ness Monster, a Chupacabra, a Bigfoot, a Thor, a Pegasus, a Cyclops, warp drive, the Force, Magic, A thinking planet as in Solaris, a portal to a hellish realm like in Doom, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Where should we draw the line, when we want to be intellectually honest about reality?

And if it is possible that God exists, then can you think of any reason that would keep you from wanting to look at the evidence?

No.
But I think you're heading to present this the wrong way...
Usually, you'd go First, evidence, then conclusion.
But you're wanting to do, first conclusion, then evidence that ignorantly explains conclusion...

Or are you looking for excuses to avoid God, so that you can do whatever you want without having to worry about God judging you?

LOL!
Did you really go there?!
Do you think we're that shallow? (I'm not saying there may not be some people out there that would use that "reasoning", but not any honest atheist... unless we're just having some fun with the believers' incredible gulibility)

Ask yourself: Do I have wrong motives? Is there anything (or anyone) that I love more than God?

What?!
What motives?
Of course there's something I love more than god... god is, as far as I can tell, a figment of humanity's imagination.
Sure, some people to fall in love with fictional entities... all the time... Remember Seven of Nine, from Star Trek Voyager? How many geeks fell for her?

But no... it's not anything like the love you can have for a real person... a real soul mate.
That religion has convinced humanity that it can love a fictional entity as much, or even more, than any other fellow human, is a testament of how deluded the believers really are.

We can’t see God-Nope But you can’t see your brain. We can't see God but there are many things that we can't see but we believe in them because we can see their effects, for example we can’t oxygen or love, but we know it’s real.

You are being stupid on purpose, aren't you?
When one says "we can't see", you should interpret it to mean "see" in the broader sense... and in "can't sense". No sensory apparatus can be employed to sense any god.
All other examples can be sensed, even if one has to resort to artificial sensory extensions, such as X-Ray cameras.

For example, you have never seen your great great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great great, great, great, great, great great, great grandfather. You have never seen his house, clothes, grave or any of his belongings. So how can you be sure he ever existed?

Neat example...
For a living individual of any species to exist, it needs to have had ancestors... I didn't count how many you put there, but I guess around 20... 20 generations, at an average of 20 years per generation, gives us 400 years.... so in the 1600's, I'd have to have had such a grand^20-father. Humans didn't crop out of the mud back then...

You know he must have existed because you exist.

AH... you got it!
How did I miss it?

God is a spirit, which means He is invisible to us. He doesn't have a physical body like we do, which means He is not limited in the same ways we are. He doesn't get sick, grow old, or get injured like we do. He can be everywhere at once.

How do you know any of this?!
Where did this information come from?
How was it provided to you?

We can’t touch God directly-Nope But you can’t touch your brain. God is a spirit.

Sure I can touch my brain... I can't say I'd live for much longer after that... but I can.
Open brain surgery, with the patient awake, is commonly performed, you know?

We can’t Hear God-Not to everyone in the same way God speaks in different ways for example, Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church to bring all men to eternal salvation. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28)

Words are wind. (Game of Thrones)
Just because someone uttered some words, 2000 years ago, it doesn't mean that that person was hearing any god.
Hearing hallucinations are perhaps more common than visual hallucinations...

Do you know where you are going when you die? You turn to dust, are you 100% sure that is all? What if there is a Heaven, Purgatory, Hell.

I hope to get cremated, after having whatever organs that still work properly donated to people who need them.... if there is still such a need, by then...

Where are you going to place your bet?
If you place it with God, you lose nothing, even if it turns out that God does not exist. But if you place it against God, and you are wrong and God does exist, you lose everything: God, eternity, heaven, infinite gain. "Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything, if you lose, you lose nothing."

Are you seriously wanting to employ Pascal's Wager? Dude, grow up.
My bet is on what I perceive to be reality.

If god is just, then he will understand... I lose nothing.
If god is unfair, then it is not your god, and not worth any praise... you'd also lose in this case... so, in comparison, I lose nothing. And I keep my intellectual honesty!

·        God is the best explanation of the beginning of the universe.

No, he's not.
Big Bang, the singularity is the explanation.

·        God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.        

No, he's not.
First, what some people have claimed to be such a fine tuning, has turned out not to be quite so...
Second, if we were not in a position to be alive, we wouldn't even exist, so que question of god wouldn't even be placed. Any Universe which can bring about conscious entities will bring about that question of tuning... Talk about a puddle finding it's perfectly fitted to the hole in the ground.

·        God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties in the world.        

No, he's not.
Evolution of social species is. Clearly visible in many other animal social species.

·        God is the best explanation of the historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth and God can be personally known and experienced.        

Wow... a 2 in 1!
Which historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth? Care to share?
How can that god be personally known and experienced? Care to share?

·        Something can't from Nothing. How did the planets form when the Big Bang explosion all of a sudden happen? After all, you don’t see round objects form when something blows up.        

Your ignorance is showing...

I suggest you read something before we continue:
Wiki article on the Solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System
Wiki article on the Universe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
Wiki article on the Big Bang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

When you know the sequence of events from Big bang to solar system, we can talk... I'm not going to educate you on that...

·        Eternal Universe? That doesn’t work because the second law of thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of usable energy and if you doubt this, look in the mirror (you’re aging and running down just like everything else).        

The Universe, and the second law of thermodynamics, came about at the singularity called "big bang".
What was before, if anything, if "before" makes sense, we know not. Whatever it was, it probably breaks the known laws of thermodynamics.

·        Life can't from Non-Life. There is no evidence whatsoever.        

Caveat: Life, as we know it...
But we don't know what life was like when it debuted on this planet.

·        Order can't come from chaos. Something exploded and we’ll all here.        

What exploded?
Oh yeah... you hadn't read the article on the Big Bang.... go read that... Hint, the Big Bang is NOT an explosion.

·        Immaterial(thoughts) can't come from physical matter.        

Any AI scientist begs to differ.

·        Would you also agree that just because we cannot see God with our eyes does not necessarily mean He doesn’t exist?        

Would you also agree that just because we cannot see The Force with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see Magic with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see a Cyclops with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?

etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc...
Flawed argument is flawed!

·        If God exists in our mind only and is the greatest possible being and object which no greater being and object can be thought of then God by definition is greater than our minds, Therefore God must exist. The ontological argument shows that if God even possibly exists then God actually exists. Which means God is existence itself.        

huh?!
Are you daft?!
Are you wanting to tell me that if I can conceive of a super-being, then that being just exists?!
Can you not discern what's in your mind from what is outside your mind?

I know you've seen all this a number of times now, but are you interested today?

I feel like I've wasted my time...

Do you agree that an open-minded person should be willing to look at all the evidence?

Still wainting for that "evidence" you speak of...

If so, then are you willing to look at the evidence for God’s existence?  

Willing, of course... always have, always will.
Haven't seen any yet, though.

“And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). But why does God wants us to have faith? I can testify and God is my witness, if you do not have faith, rock solid faith, you are not likely to spiritually survive        the coming demonic onslaught to planet earth in these end times.

What?! survive what? I've been surviving very well for over 30 years and no faith to be mentioned... And I'm aware of many other people in a similar situation.... many have lived long and fulfilling lives... and no need to survive any "demonic onslaught"

You know what faith does to your brain?
You know how psychologically vulnerble you are to self-delusion?
No, of course you don't.... you live in fairy-tale land...

When you wake up from that fairy-tale, you'll see it for what it is.. if you ever wake up... I sense you are way too far into it.

Lets say God appeared to you in his glory, It's still down to your faith because, you have the option to believe that it was God or was just a hallucination. If it was a miracle, you have the free will to believe it was by chance or was of God or fakedetc. Here is the key that somany miss today. In order to obey God's commands you must believe what God is telling you.  Doubt in God's word is always the devils target therefore his target when he attacks you is your faith.

You think you're the first idiot to think of this?
What if this god appeared in all its glory to all of mankind at the same time (with some shifts in time, so as to not disturb the sleeping folk that live in different time-zones)? How would this be a hallucination, then?

But does this happen?
Ah... no... it seems that is beyond it's power or wish... Of course, the simplest reason is that such a being doesn't exist.

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18  

       “I'll obey you when it's convenient for me...”, kind of belief isn't going to save anyone's soul. Rather, its just the grease that slides millions of nominal 'Unbelievers' into hellfire.  



God is looking for people who will trust him, obey him and most importantly

love him. Trust and faith are key components of love and he is looking for us to

demonstrate these traits to the Lord.

No...
The religious elite is looking for people who will trust it, obey it and most importantly love it.
Can you tell the difference from what you said?

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[Fake Messiah]

We Catholics have another thing Called the catechism it interprets the Bible.

It's called "Pick and choose" what you like and discard what you don't like. Meaning that you already have secular morality in you when you read the Bible. Your morals don't come from the Bible unless you're insane, which proves that god does not exist when even us have greater moral then that fictional being has.

For example, you have never seen your great great, ... grandfather.

Yes it's called "missing link". Usually we have documents for people that used to live, but for those that didn't leave any evidence of living except their genetic inheritance in us we can call missing links. Even if you believe you came from Adam who was created 6000 years ago you don't know names of all your forebears and don't have skeletal remains so they are missing links from Adam to you.

If God exists in our mind only and is the greatest possible being and object which no greater being and object can be thought of then God by definition is greater than our minds, Therefore God must exist.

Again this "if I can imagine perfect being" but the truth is nobody can imagine perfect being. People just project "values" they think are right. For some it's a being that hates Muslims, for others it's the one that hates foreskins... you get the point. That's why you have god in bible that hates Midianites and I mean really hates them: their kids, their women, men, everything that has to do anything about them YHVH wants them dead.

For this and the rest of your questions I mean really why don't you read a popular science book? I mean we have people here constantly coming with tremendous lack of knowledge in science and they ask the same questions thinking they're so profound. You know some of those questions were profound 400 years ago (although very few), but now they just make you look stupid.

Try reading Richard Dawkins "Magic Of Reality" it was written so that even kids can understand it and it deals with science and particularly the same questions you asked. I mean are you afraid of Dawkins that he's the devil? Did Vatican demonize him so hard that Catholics run for their crosses when they hear his name? What do you have to lose?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Any evidence would be a start.

And yet again they want us to provide evidence for their god. Evidently even they are starting to figure out that bald assertions aren't actual evidence.

[Edwardo Piet]

Proving that AF Staff are more powerful than any god.

Every thing is more powerful than any god

[Edward John]

I would like to respond to them, unless that would count as some kind of no preaching rule breaking.

[Minimalist]

Proving that AF Staff are more powerful than any god.

At least you exist..... if not, I've been talking to a mirage for, what is it?  8 years or so?

[pocaracas]

I would like to respond to them, unless that would count as some kind of no preaching rule breaking.

There's no such rule anymore...
Here, you can check: https://atheistforums.org/rules.php

[Cyberman]

I would like to respond to them, unless that would count as some kind of no preaching rule breaking.

We currently have no rule regarding preaching. However, if preaching is all you intend to do, what would be the point?

Now, if we're done with all the red herrings, are you going to answer my earlier question?