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Your analogy fails because it is not necessary to believe in god for spiritual enlightenment.
Well I see this topic goes over like a lead balloon on this site which is to be expected. I was hoping for one with a bit more curiousity but it doesn't seem so yet but who knows.
If we are in Plato's cave psychologically what is the sense sense is believing in anything? The solution is not in belief but in acquiring an impartial mind that neither believes or denies but remains open.
"To believe in God is not a decision we can make. All we can do is decide not to give our love to false gods. In the first place, we can decide not to believe that the future contains for us an all-sufficient good. The future is made of the same stuff as the present....
The unification of religion and atheism isn't through belief but rather through conscious impartial attention within which imagination is no longer dominant. It is imagination that attaches us to false gods including the secular gods such as money at the expense of a higher more human perspective.
Plato suggests that the path to wisdom is in the practice of "Know Thyself." Once one begins efforts at self knowledge we see how far we are from it. Socrates experienced this which is why the Oracle said he had wisdom. Socrates came to experience that he knew nothing.
Your analogy fails because it is not necessary to believe in god for spiritual enlightenment.
Well I see this topic goes over like a lead balloon on this site which is to be expected. I was hoping for one with a bit more curiousity but it doesn't seem so yet but who knows.
If we are in Plato's cave psychologically what is the sense sense is believing in anything? The solution is not in belief but in acquiring an impartial mind that neither believes or denies but remains open.
"To believe in God is not a decision we can make. All we can do is decide not to give our love to false gods. In the first place, we can decide not to believe that the future contains for us an all-sufficient good. The future is made of the same stuff as the present....
The unification of religion and atheism isn't through belief but rather through conscious impartial attention within which imagination is no longer dominant. It is imagination that attaches us to false gods including the secular gods such as money at the expense of a higher more human perspective.
Plato suggests that the path to wisdom is in the practice of "Know Thyself." Once one begins efforts at self knowledge we see how far we are from it. Socrates experienced this which is why the Oracle said he had wisdom. Socrates came to experience that he knew nothing.
The topic went over like a lead balloon because the point of all of this is not being expressed very well. First start off by explaining exactly what you mean by the unification of religion and atheism.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Your analogy fails because it is not necessary to believe in god for spiritual enlightenment.
Well I see this topic goes over like a lead balloon on this site which is to be expected. I was hoping for one with a bit more curiousity but it doesn't seem so yet but who knows.
If we are in Plato's cave psychologically what is the sense sense is believing in anything? The solution is not in belief but in acquiring an impartial mind that neither believes or denies but remains open.
"To believe in God is not a decision we can make. All we can do is decide not to give our love to false gods. In the first place, we can decide not to believe that the future contains for us an all-sufficient good. The future is made of the same stuff as the present....
The unification of religion and atheism isn't through belief but rather through conscious impartial attention within which imagination is no longer dominant. It is imagination that attaches us to false gods including the secular gods such as money at the expense of a higher more human perspective.
Plato suggests that the path to wisdom is in the practice of "Know Thyself." Once one begins efforts at self knowledge we see how far we are from it. Socrates experienced this which is why the Oracle said he had wisdom. Socrates came to experience that he knew nothing.
The topic went over like a lead balloon because the point of all of this is not being expressed very well. First start off by explaining exactly what you mean by the unification of religion and atheism.
It can only have one meaning. Unification is what they have in common. In this case it is the need for truth. The atheist is enchanted with the truth of analysis, the associative dualistic mind. The believer is attracted to the truth of the heart: objective quality.
They both become deluded in Plato's cave through imagination. But as a person becomes more inwardly free, the mind and heart, quantity and quality, become complimentary.
Einstein was one that understood this:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
(June 17, 2011 at 3:50 pm)Nick_A Wrote: It can only have one meaning. Unification is what they have in common. In this case it is the need for truth. The atheist is enchanted with the truth of analysis, the associative dualistic mind. The believer is attracted to the truth of the heart: objective quality.
They both become deluded in Plato's cave through imagination. But as a person becomes more inwardly free, the mind and heart, quantity and quality, become complimentary.
Einstein was one that understood this:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
See there is your problem. Unification means to unite, not common characteristics.
And here is what Einstein meant by religion
'Einstein Wrote:It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
(June 17, 2011 at 3:50 pm)Nick_A Wrote: It can only have one meaning. Unification is what they have in common. In this case it is the need for truth. The atheist is enchanted with the truth of analysis, the associative dualistic mind. The believer is attracted to the truth of the heart: objective quality.
They both become deluded in Plato's cave through imagination. But as a person becomes more inwardly free, the mind and heart, quantity and quality, become complimentary.
Einstein was one that understood this:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
See there is your problem. Unification means to unite, not common characteristics.
And here is what Einstein meant by religion
'Einstein Wrote:It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
Science and the essence of religion unite in objective "truth" outside of Plato's cave. Einstein is referring to the personal God concept which I agree is a cave concept thar Simone described so well.
(June 17, 2011 at 1:38 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:
(June 17, 2011 at 1:21 pm)frankiej Wrote: yup, until the intersubjectively verifiable data evidenced by the scientific method (and perhaps peer reviewed) is there I shall carry on with my first impression of thinking you are mad.
Fixed that for you. Minimalist can sum up that statement as 'evidence' as much as he likes. You're not minimalist. So you have to earn that
(June 17, 2011 at 8:26 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Um...I have not copyrighted the word, dear.
True. However: your post count and personality back up your using 'Evidence' to simplify a greater statement. What you say is certain, it's a known quantity. You speak your own language. Etc
When a random person asks for evidence, it's not necessarily intersubjectively verifiable data evidenced by the scientific method. Ie: I've heard plenty of religious people settle for 'personal evidence' when asked for evidence.