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(January 23, 2017 at 5:34 am)Godschild Wrote: The first sermon Peter preached resulted in 5000 new Christians. Christianity spread quickly throughout the known world of that time. Paul was at the stoning of Stephen a Jewish believer, this was most likely God's beginning work on Paul's spirit. So you see the chosen disciples had a huge effect on the spread of Christianity. The real truth of this matter doesn't begin with what the disciples were doing, the truth is what God was doing through them and they knew this to be the truth, it is conveyed in the NT.
GC
You're such a fucking infant, G-C.
What do you want to bet that he's one of those guys who is convinced he can see through propaganda?
Those 5000 converts Peter bagged would be deemed irredeemable heretics in just a few years/decades as a result of all the changes occurring in 'Christian' dogma, strictures, and theology. The specifications of the new religion wouldn't be hammered out in large part for a few centuries, and considering the schism rate remains astonishingly high ~2000 years later, it is reasonable to conclude the religion was never hammered out completely at all.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
(January 21, 2017 at 8:43 pm)Firefighter01 Wrote: If you believe that Jesus existed, you would have to say that he could not of picked 12 worse marketers of his supposed ministry if he tried. These 2 dimensional dummies were just made up as his fall guys and made very little impact in the society that they were supposed to evangelise.
By what measure could you possible be using that blatantly ignores the net result of a 2000+ year old ministry, for the sake of a hand fulls of unconfirmed flyby night cults that most likly never made it past the death of their leaders let alone 2000 years.
Quote: After Jesus's death, over 80 cults sprang up in the area over the next couple of centuries.
Source Please.
Quote:Some of the more prominent were Simonians, Montanists, Marcionites (Marcion was also a docetist, he wrote the first type of Bible), Ebionites, and Phibionites.
Ah.. you mean denominations. Don't get me wrong some were indeed cults but others were no different that the followings in and amongest the diciples themselves...
So what if that was the whole point of Jesus Choosing who He did? So that no one person would take power over the church? That it remained a scattered like a shot gun blast rather than a sniper's target. Meaning In the way the church it currently set up it can 'hit/reach out to more people than if it were a set standard of rules as with islam and Judaism.
Quote:How could people so easily be converted away from Christianity when the "truth" was firmly known and confirmed by all the miracles, resurrection and ascension?
Because there isn't any one set of rules that govern the church. That there is freedom in doing what our personal best is. Whether that is in the way of understanding or in work.
Quote:Regarding the disciples, Paul never calls them by that name,
Not a fan of actually reading the bible huh? In Gal 1 Paul acknowledges peter and James were Apostles of Christ. Which after the ascension they were known as. Why? Because the word disciple refers to a student who is learning. An Apostle is a servant sent out to complete a task. Once Jesus ascended their student status was over.(teacher had left) When Christ gave them the great commission they then became apostles.
Quote: and is silent on Jesus's ministry and life before the trial.
Again not true. Luke via the book of acts records the gospel of Paul. In a sense Luke was Paul's scribe, and his gospel is that of Paul Himself.
Quote:He only knows of him via an apparition, even after speaking with a couple of the the disciples whom he calls apostles. Hardly anything is known about their lives, where they were born and what became of them after the resurrection. Only two of them have their deaths recorded in the Bible: James, whom Herod killed “with the sword” (Acts 12:2) and Judas Iscariot, who either hanged himself or fell and burst open - which ever contradictory account you believe in.
your just all over the place huh?
No real points to make just empty assertions...
What about steven the first who got stoned to death?
Quote:After Jesus's death, over 80 cults sprang up in the area over the next couple of centuries.
Source Please.
For once dripshit has a point. The evidence seems to suggest that there were scads of variant groups across the ANE believing in some sort of savior figure which was a very popular motif at the time. They certainly did not need any 'jesus' to live or die. Much later on these groups were suppressed by what eventually became the catholic church and declared heretics.
But they certainly did not have to wait for any non-existent 'jesus' to die.
January 23, 2017 at 3:14 pm (This post was last modified: January 23, 2017 at 3:21 pm by Godscreated.)
(January 23, 2017 at 7:40 am)Firefighter01 Wrote:
(January 23, 2017 at 5:34 am)Godschild Wrote: The first sermon Peter preached resulted in 5000 new Christians. Christianity spread quickly throughout the known world of that time. Paul was at the stoning of Stephen a Jewish believer, this was most likely God's beginning work on Paul's spirit. So you see the chosen disciples had a huge effect on the spread of Christianity. The real truth of this matter doesn't begin with what the disciples were doing, the truth is what God was doing through them and they knew this to be the truth, it is conveyed in the NT.
GC
As if anyone could work out that exactly 5,000 men instantly believed after hearing one sermon! It's just an empty assertion.
They would have all been baptized, easy enough to count them at that time, a practical way of knowing.
GC
(January 23, 2017 at 10:24 am)Crossless1 Wrote:
(January 23, 2017 at 7:40 am)Firefighter01 Wrote: As if anyone could work out that exactly 5,000 men instantly believed after hearing one sermon! It's just an empty assertion.
Perhaps they gave Peter their money. Peter was big on that, apparently.
Just ask Ananias and Sapphira.
You've misunderstood the story, Peter told them it was their money to do with as they wanted, they tried to fool the Holy Spirit and the church by giving part of the money and hiding the fact by saying they had given it all.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
January 23, 2017 at 3:47 pm (This post was last modified: January 23, 2017 at 3:49 pm by Crossless2.0.)
(January 23, 2017 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(January 23, 2017 at 10:24 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Perhaps they gave Peter their money. Peter was big on that, apparently.
Just ask Ananias and Sapphira.
You've misunderstood the story, Peter told them it was their money to do with as they wanted, they tried to fool the Holy Spirit and the church by giving part of the money and hiding the fact by saying they had given it all.
January 23, 2017 at 8:36 pm (This post was last modified: January 23, 2017 at 8:40 pm by Wyrd of Gawd.)
(January 23, 2017 at 5:34 am)Godschild Wrote:
(January 21, 2017 at 8:43 pm)Firefighter01 Wrote:
If you believe that Jesus existed, you would have to say that he could not of picked 12 worse marketers of his supposed ministry if he tried. These 2 dimensional dummies were just made up as his fall guys and made very little impact in the society that they were supposed to evangelise. After Jesus's death, over 80 cults sprang up in the area over the next couple of centuries. Some of the more prominent were Simonians, Montanists, Marcionites (Marcion was also a docetist, he wrote the first type of Bible), Ebionites, and Phibionites.
How could people so easily be converted away from Christianity when the "truth" was firmly known and confirmed by all the miracles, resurrection and ascension?
Regarding the disciples, Paul never calls them by that name, and is silent on Jesus's ministry and life before the trial. He only knows of him via an apparition, even after speaking with a couple of the the disciples whom he calls apostles. Hardly anything is known about their lives, where they were born and what became of them after the resurrection. Only two of them have their deaths recorded in the Bible: James, whom Herod killed “with the sword” (Acts 12:2) and Judas Iscariot, who either hanged himself or fell and burst open - which ever contradictory account you believe in.
The first sermon Peter preached resulted in 5000 new Christians. Christianity spread quickly throughout the known world of that time. Paul was at the stoning of Stephen a Jewish believer, this was most likely God's beginning work on Paul's spirit. So you see the chosen disciples had a huge effect on the spread of Christianity. The real truth of this matter doesn't begin with what the disciples were doing, the truth is what God was doing through them and they knew this to be the truth, it is conveyed in the NT.
GC
Do you have an actual biblical reference for that little gem?
(January 23, 2017 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(January 23, 2017 at 7:40 am)Firefighter01 Wrote: As if anyone could work out that exactly 5,000 men instantly believed after hearing one sermon! It's just an empty assertion.
They would have all been baptized, easy enough to count them at that time, a practical way of knowing.
GC
Do you have any realistic idea how long it would take one man to baptize 5,000 people in a river?
(January 23, 2017 at 5:34 am)Godschild Wrote: The first sermon Peter preached resulted in 5000 new Christians. Christianity spread quickly throughout the known world of that time. Paul was at the stoning of Stephen a Jewish believer, this was most likely God's beginning work on Paul's spirit. So you see the chosen disciples had a huge effect on the spread of Christianity. The real truth of this matter doesn't begin with what the disciples were doing, the truth is what God was doing through them and they knew this to be the truth, it is conveyed in the NT.
GC
Do you have an actual biblical reference for that little gem?
(January 23, 2017 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote: They would have all been baptized, easy enough to count them at that time, a practical way of knowing.
GC
Do you have any realistic idea how long it would take one man to baptize 5,000 people in a river?
At ten minutes each, just under 35 days. That's with uninterrupted logistics and unbelievable mind control. Even 50 would be pushing it uphill. How many would seriously flip their religion after a single sermon?
