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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 11:31 pm
(February 9, 2017 at 11:24 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (February 9, 2017 at 10:39 pm)chimp3 Wrote: What if 1,000,000 want to be tech support and no one wants to fix the sewers?
The same thing when everyone wants to be an xray tech and no one wants to be infantry, they're told to pick something else. This is pretty run of the mill stuff.
You can't always get what you want. Some times 100,000,000 tech support wannabes means 750,000 unemployed fools who listened to their government appointed guidance counselor.
Guidance counseling from Trump appointed guidance counselor: "When you get done shining my shoes , carry my golf clubs!"
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 11:33 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2017 at 11:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Thankfully we're not talking about guidance counseling from a trump appointee..we're talking about a national service.
Stop softballing me.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 11:37 pm
(February 9, 2017 at 11:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Thankfully we're not talking about guidance counseling from a trump appointee..we're talking about a national service.
Stop softballing me.
In the U.S. the National Service would fall into the hands of whichever idiot is elected every four years. How about a work force being sent to make mascara for Ivanka Trump!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 11:39 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2017 at 11:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why would it? The US government and it's branches aren't the personal property of a king. In any case, assuming it did, this has already been addressed. If your objections to either the service or the administration are so great - you can opt out..and in so doing lose access to those benefits otherwise conferred. Or, perhaps, if you wish, defer service to the next administration and resume coverage at such a time as your service requirement is complete.
I don't see making mascara for Ivanka Trump as being a national interest, personally, do you? As such it's not the business a national service would be in.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: National Service
February 10, 2017 at 12:20 am
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2017 at 12:21 am by Sterben.)
It works in some country's in a region that has a long history of small proxy wars, or are if you live next to North Korea. But, here in the U.S would be implausible to implement any type of *National Service* or *Conscription*. The closet system is the *Draft*, and that system will probably be never used again. The whole Vietnam War made that very unpopular.
“A man isn't tiny or giant enough to defeat anything” Yukio Mishima
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RE: National Service
February 10, 2017 at 12:23 am
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2017 at 12:33 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Were talking about a national service, not military conscription. The closest system would be, for example, the system that abaris mentioned earlier in the thread, not a draft.
(besides, we already have one of those, it's called the selective service, lol)
Fun aside, small sample size....but the percentage of respondants to this survey who;ve indicated a willingness or openess to mandatory civil service is already larger...many times over, than the number of people who actually volunteer for -any- type of service. So far, it seems, the notion that atheists are something other than civil minded contributors willing to serve isn't doing so well, on these boards at least.
It would take every active member and then some responding in the negative to even approach the low number of current voluntary servicemembers in the us relative to the GP.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: National Service
February 10, 2017 at 3:32 am
Over twenty years ago, a younger version of myself laid in a coffin-sized rack aboard a submarine 800 feet beneath waves that were thousands of miles from hearth and home. As if my longing wasn't enough, I struggled with the thought that back home there were men that were actively beating the shit out of their wives and children. This self-inflicted mind fuck preoccupied me for a few days. At first I excused it by convincing myself that I wasn't in part protecting the freedom of the wife beater, but had to admit that I was. The fact is that my service contributed to a broader good that wasn't easily quantifiable and necessarily helped protect freedoms not only to of my countryman, but other world citizens that our mission was designed to protect. Now, I don't ever have to accept wife beating as a natural outcome of freedom. It's illegal and punished appropriately when recognized and proven. What the thought process did affirm, broadly speaking, is that free people may use their freedoms in ways I don't agree with, even if legal. The important part was freedom.
My dedication to liberty means that I could never support mandatory service to the state. Telling someone that their manner of service is subject to personal discretion doesn't negate the fact that they have been deprived their liberty.
I've had this conversation before and some like to argue that I shouldn't be opposed because I am not 'perfectly' free in that I have to pay taxes and get a driver's license etc. I am compelled to obey the laws of society to which I am born or leave. If I stay I must accept, but work through the accepted means for change towards more liberty. What I don't have to accept is further erosion of liberty, particularly where compulsion is invoked.
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RE: National Service
February 10, 2017 at 5:53 am
(February 10, 2017 at 3:32 am)Cato Wrote: Over twenty years ago, a younger version of myself laid in a coffin-sized rack aboard a submarine 800 feet beneath waves that were thousands of miles from hearth and home. As if my longing wasn't enough, I struggled with the thought that back home there were men that were actively beating the shit out of their wives and children. This self-inflicted mind fuck preoccupied me for a few days. At first I excused it by convincing myself that I wasn't in part protecting the freedom of the wife beater, but had to admit that I was. The fact is that my service contributed to a broader good that wasn't easily quantifiable and necessarily helped protect freedoms not only to of my countryman, but other world citizens that our mission was designed to protect. Now, I don't ever have to accept wife beating as a natural outcome of freedom. It's illegal and punished appropriately when recognized and proven. What the thought process did affirm, broadly speaking, is that free people may use their freedoms in ways I don't agree with, even if legal. The important part was freedom.
My dedication to liberty means that I could never support mandatory service to the state. Telling someone that their manner of service is subject to personal discretion doesn't negate the fact that they have been deprived their liberty.
I've had this conversation before and some like to argue that I shouldn't be opposed because I am not 'perfectly' free in that I have to pay taxes and get a driver's license etc. I am compelled to obey the laws of society to which I am born or leave. If I stay I must accept, but work through the accepted means for change towards more liberty. What I don't have to accept is further erosion of liberty, particularly where compulsion is invoked.
How about the obligation to get a school education? Is that also unacceptable? I ask because I don't have a hard time imagining a year or half a year of service as part of personal formation akin to schooling.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: National Service
February 10, 2017 at 8:47 am
No one would be deprived of their liberty, it's sweetheart access to broad social services that they'd be deprived of.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: National Service
February 11, 2017 at 12:23 am
Well it's settled, a lot of people here are against it.
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