What is the logic in "life after death"?

[SteveII]

Yes, finding the Christian god is so simple, that the majority of theists find a different god or gods. Nice planning there, Yahweh.

2. Did you try to find the answers to these supposed hurdles? There are so few objections to Christianity that have not been answered over and over for thousands of years. 

Sure did. They are far from convincing to anyone not looking to have their confirmation bias reinforced. Most are blatantly fallacious.

Apologists from other religions have similar 'answers' to the hurdles of buying into their religions.  

3. That is just a theory you could not possibly know is true or ever have a hope of testing (non-falsifiable). 

There are 1000's of experimental evidence that supports this.

4. The very existence of the natural world is evidence.

Circular logic.

"God created the natural world. The natural world exists. Therefore, it is proof that god created the natural world".

Nicely played sir, nicely played!

5. What is evidence of God existing? Miracles? There is a whole catalog of them in the NT. Nothing circular there.

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Texts written by ancient, superstitious tribesmen that include some miracle stories is not evidence.

The NT is THE claim, it is not evidence.

1. 
2. It is hard to address sweeping generalities. How about a couple that really got you.
3. You said: "Our pattern seeking and exaggerated agency detection superimposes gods over the natural world." How has that been studied?
4. Nope. That is not my argument. My argument would be that there has to be a first cause of the universe OR what is the explanation that the universe is mind-boggling fine-tuned for life, etc. Not circular.
5. Nope again. The NT, within the same time period, catalogs the fact that there existed churches prior to Paul writing his letters that believed the core contents of the NT. These facts independently attest that the later gospels contain beliefs already in existence prior to the writing of the gospels. Further, document/linquistic studies confirm that the gospels relied on even earlier writings/notes/testimony. All surviving evidence for anything that all will be in writing. To use your logic that writing was not evidence, you would have to dismiss all ancient history.

[Godscreated]

OK I know that you'll say that logic and religion don't go together but there must be something that religious people use to rationalize this very central reason why most of them bother with religion.

Logic and Christianity go hand in hand. It's those who have been blinded by their hero's who believe there is no logic in Christianity. Just look at the atheist here site all the time, it's the same ones over and over. Christianity only becomes a bother when Christians do not want to follow God's will completely.

So, what would be the point of creating this world only to test people here to see if they'll go to heaven or hell? Looking at popular belief (and not strictly the scriptures) of who goes where : the killers, thieves, gluttonous and rapists get denied of heaven and are sentenced to hell - but why?

This world was and never has been a testing ground for salvation. You have missed the reason God made this world exist, it's called love and because it came about from God his Providence reigns over all of it, you nor any one else has a say in this. When we choose Jesus as our savior we are then shown why God's Providence reigns, it's part of growing in a relationship with Him.
Popular belief is where people get themselves into trouble, people want to be lazy instead of studying and searching the Bible, popular belief saves no one, scripture is plain on how salvation is obtained. All those things you mentioned are forgivable sins in this life as long as we have Jesus as Savior.

Because when you get to heaven you are immortal and if you can't die - nobody can kill you; if everybody has everything - why bother stealing?; if you don't have to eat because you're a ghost and already dead - so what if you were gluttonous?; and if everybody is lacking genitals then nobody can rape anybody.

You start out the above with those in heaven as immortals then you go on to say those in heaven are dead ghosts, seems to me you"re so confused about every aspect of Christianity it's no wonder you can't figure anything out. Who says we will have things that could be stolen, scripture teaches us to lay up our treasures in heaven where they can never be stolen. Who says we want eat, we're going to have physical bodies as Jesus does and He ate with the disciples. We are told we want have the same relationship with our wives as we did here on earth, heaven will be a different and better way of life.

What am I missing here? Does anyone have an answer to this?

You are missing the entire point of Jesus and the forgiveness that is necessary to be redeemed to enter heaven. You have made this conclusion clear by what you have posted above. If you are not reconciled to God through your own choice you want see heaven, that's as plain as I can put it and the NT scriptures teach this as plain as day. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but, it's the simple an absolute truth of it.

GC

[Aoi Magi]

3. You said: "Our pattern seeking and exaggerated agency detection superimposes gods over the natural world." How has that been studied?

The pigeon experiment would be a good start.



4. Nope. That is not my argument. My argument would be that there has to be a first cause of the universe OR what is the explanation that the universe is mind-boggling fine-tuned for life, etc. Not circular.

The universe is fine tuned for life? bwahahahaha,
Try travelling outside our magnetosphere
Try travelling outside our atmosphere
Heck, try surviving on this blue dot without man-made protections like clothes and tools


5. Nope again. The NT, within the same time period, catalogs the fact that there existed churches prior to Paul writing his letters that believed the core contents of the NT. These facts independently attest that the later gospels contain beliefs already in existence prior to the writing of the gospels. Further, document/linquistic studies confirm that the gospels relied on even earlier writings/notes/testimony. All surviving evidence for anything that all will be in writing. To use your logic that writing was not evidence, you would have to dismiss all ancient history.

The book of harry potter mentions places like england and london that exist prior to harry's birth, and the existence of these people have been confirmed by people even today, thus harry potter is reality

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OK I know that you'll say that logic and religion don't go together but there must be something that religious people use to rationalize this very central reason why most of them bother with religion.

Logic and Christianity go hand in hand. It's those who have been blinded by their hero's who believe there is no logic in Christianity. Just look at the atheist here site all the time, it's the same ones over and over. Christianity only becomes a bother when Christians do not want to follow God's will completely.

Mental gymnastics is not logic.
And people keep repeating themselves because religious people keep rehashing the same arguments over and over again.

So, what would be the point of creating this world only to test people here to see if they'll go to heaven or hell? Looking at popular belief (and not strictly the scriptures) of who goes where : the killers, thieves, gluttonous and rapists get denied of heaven and are sentenced to hell - but why?

This world was and never has been a testing ground for salvation. You have missed the reason God made this world exist, it's called love and because it came about from God his Providence reigns over all of it, you nor any one else has a say in this. When we choose Jesus as our savior we are then shown why God's Providence reigns, it's part of growing in a relationship with Him.
Popular belief is where people get themselves into trouble, people want to be lazy instead of studying and searching the Bible, popular belief saves no one, scripture is plain on how salvation is obtained. All those things you mentioned are forgivable sins in this life as long as we have Jesus as Savior.

Punishing a baby for pooping does show how much love there is. By your own scriptures, adam and eve had no sense of good/evil or right and wrong, yet they are expected to do what someone else considers right, which is asinine.

Because when you get to heaven you are immortal and if you can't die - nobody can kill you; if everybody has everything - why bother stealing?; if you don't have to eat because you're a ghost and already dead - so what if you were gluttonous?; and if everybody is lacking genitals then nobody can rape anybody.

You start out the above with those in heaven as immortals then you go on to say those in heaven are dead ghosts, seems to me you"re so confused about every aspect of Christianity it's no wonder you can't figure anything out. Who says we will have things that could be stolen, scripture teaches us to lay up our treasures in heaven where they can never be stolen. Who says we want eat, we're going to have physical bodies as Jesus does and He ate with the disciples. We are told we want have the same relationship with our wives as we did here on earth, heaven will be a different and better way of life.

nice baseless assertions

What am I missing here? Does anyone have an answer to this?

You are missing the entire point of Jesus and the forgiveness that is necessary to be redeemed to enter heaven. You have made this conclusion clear by what you have posted above. If you are not reconciled to God through your own choice you want see heaven, that's as plain as I can put it and the NT scriptures teach this as plain as day. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but, it's the simple an absolute truth of it.

GC

You are rejecting allah, so you'll go to hell. repent now.

[HairyCyclist]

[...]
How can one appreciate eternal life if one has never experienced death? Haha that's what eternal life is isn't it?

You've totally nailed it there!

I'm sure he'll explain what he meant by that eventually

[Godscreated]

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Logic and Christianity go hand in hand. It's those who have been blinded by their hero's who believe there is no logic in Christianity. Just look at the atheist here site all the time, it's the same ones over and over. Christianity only becomes a bother when Christians do not want to follow God's will completely.

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Mental gymnastics is not logic.
And people keep repeating themselves because religious people keep rehashing the same arguments over and over again.

Mental gymnastics, there's one from your hero's.
It was an atheist who started this thread and if I'm not mistaken this is at least the second time in the last several months an atheist has started a thread on this very subject, We as Christians are trying to be consistent in our answers, so yes we do have to repeat the same things over and over because some of the atheist here just can not seem to grasp what we are saying.

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This world was and never has been a testing ground for salvation. You have missed the reason God made this world exist, it's called love and because it came about from God his Providence reigns over all of it, you nor any one else has a say in this. When we choose Jesus as our savior we are then shown why God's Providence reigns, it's part of growing in a relationship with Him.
Popular belief is where people get themselves into trouble, people want to be lazy instead of studying and searching the Bible, popular belief saves no one, scripture is plain on how salvation is obtained. All those things you mentioned are forgivable sins in this life as long as we have Jesus as Savior.

---

Punishing a baby for pooping does show how much love there is. By your own scriptures, adam and eve had no sense of good/evil or right and wrong, yet they are expected to do what someone else considers right, which is asinine.

Good and evil they did not know about, right and wrong they did. Eve said, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.' " Now with a little logical reasoning we can see that Eve knew it was wrong to disobey God for she even told of the punishment that would come from such disobedience. Eve understanding there was a punishment for disobedience had to know it was wrong, thus knowing this was wrong she knew obeying was right.

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You start out the above with those in heaven as immortals then you go on to say those in heaven are dead ghosts, seems to me you"re so confused about every aspect of Christianity it's no wonder you can't figure anything out. Who says we will have things that could be stolen, scripture teaches us to lay up our treasures in heaven where they can never be stolen. Who says we want eat, we're going to have physical bodies as Jesus does and He ate with the disciples. We are told we want have the same relationship with our wives as we did here on earth, heaven will be a different and better way of life.

---

nice baseless assertions

There is nothing baseless about what I said, FM described something that was not even logical when he said that those in heaven were immortal but yet dead ghosts. That statement alone validates what I said.

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You are missing the entire point of Jesus and the forgiveness that is necessary to be redeemed to enter heaven. You have made this conclusion clear by what you have posted above. If you are not reconciled to God through your own choice you want see heaven, that's as plain as I can put it and the NT scriptures teach this as plain as day. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but, it's the simple an absolute truth of it.

GC

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You are rejecting allah, so you'll go to hell. repent now.

Allah is a moon God that Mohammed tried to pass off as the God of creation, 600 years after Christ came an completed his work and 4600 years after God created the world we live in. So no thanks, I'll stick with the Originator of all things.

GC

[Harry Nevis]

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Eternal consequences for not believing in something there is no evidence for.  For giving us the capability of reason, and punishing us for using it

Except there have been hundreds of millions (if not billions) of adult conversions over the centuries. How do you explain that if there was 'no evidence'? This 'no evidence' tune shows a  gross lack of understanding of the issues. You can say all you want that you don't find the evidence compelling, but to say there is no evidence is just nonsense repeated by atheists often enough that a good portion of you actually believe it. Sad.

Wow, hundreds of millions...

So?  There have been many more throughout history that didn't lead to your god, but some other.  My claim of no evidence is not nonsense, it's your definition of evidence that needs work.

[SteveII]

Except there have been hundreds of millions (if not billions) of adult conversions over the centuries. How do you explain that if there was 'no evidence'? This 'no evidence' tune shows a  gross lack of understanding of the issues. You can say all you want that you don't find the evidence compelling, but to say there is no evidence is just nonsense repeated by atheists often enough that a good portion of you actually believe it. Sad.

Wow, hundreds of millions...

So?  There have been many more throughout history that didn't lead to your god, but some other.  My claim of no evidence is not nonsense, it's your definition of evidence that needs work.

You really don't reason well, do you? If we are talking about hundreds of millions of adults finding enough evidence to believe, it is not my definition of evidence you are questioning--it is theirs.

[Nonpareil]

If we are talking about hundreds of millions of adults finding enough evidence to believe, it is not my definition of evidence you are questioning--it is theirs.

And it's still demonstrably wrong, because the things that they claim are evidence are anything but.

[Harry Nevis]

Wow, hundreds of millions...

So?  There have been many more throughout history that didn't lead to your god, but some other.  My claim of no evidence is not nonsense, it's your definition of evidence that needs work.

You really don't reason well, do you? If we are talking about hundreds of millions of adults finding enough evidence to believe, it is not my definition of evidence you are questioning--it is theirs.

If you're claiming it's evidence, then I'm questioning your definition.

[SteveII]

If we are talking about hundreds of millions of adults finding enough evidence to believe, it is not my definition of evidence you are questioning--it is theirs.

And it's still demonstrably wrong, because the things that they claim are evidence are anything but.

Demonstrate away...or get a more sophisticated script to read off of.

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You really don't reason well, do you? If we are talking about hundreds of millions of adults finding enough evidence to believe, it is not my definition of evidence you are questioning--it is theirs.

If you're claiming it's evidence, then I'm questioning your definition.

If you are starting at the point that there is "no evidence" than I am too old and tired to argue with that level of ignorance. You can believe what you want. When you learn how to have a discussion, maybe I will participate.