Paul's 500 witnesses.

[Minimalist]

Indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/n...esus-tears

Jesus wept … oh, it's bad plumbing. Indian rationalist targets 'miracles'

Sanal Edamaruku faces jail for revealing 'tears' trickling down a Mumbai church statue came from clogged drainage pipes

Jesus, apparently, was full of shit!

[The Valkyrie]

Indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/n...esus-tears

Jesus wept … oh, it's bad plumbing. Indian rationalist targets 'miracles'

Sanal Edamaruku faces jail for revealing 'tears' trickling down a Mumbai church statue came from clogged drainage pipes

Jesus, apparently, was full of shit!

That's the one.

Thank you.

It reminds me of those stories that occasionally appear in the news where a person has saved someone's life but is now being sued because the saved person suffered a minor injury.

[Jehanne]

Indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/n...esus-tears

Jesus wept … oh, it's bad plumbing. Indian rationalist targets 'miracles'

Sanal Edamaruku faces jail for revealing 'tears' trickling down a Mumbai church statue came from clogged drainage pipes

Jesus, apparently, was full of shit!

So, a miracle is a really (or at least somewhat) improbable event that people mistake for something supernatural because they do not take the time or lack the means to investigate??

[The Valkyrie]

Indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/n...esus-tears


Jesus, apparently, was full of shit!

So, a miracle is a really (or at least somewhat) improbable event that people mistake for something supernatural because they do not take the time or lack the means to investigate??

In many cases, yes.

[Minimalist]

Indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/n...esus-tears


Jesus, apparently, was full of shit!

So, a miracle is a really (or at least somewhat) improbable event that people mistake for something supernatural because they do not take the time or lack the means to investigate??

It's a little more than that.  They don't want to investigate.

Believers are constantly seeking validation for their beliefs.  "Investigation" is the last thing they would ever want.

[vorlon13]

500 witnesses ??

Um . . .






Er . . . .









Uh . . .









On one occasion Jesus managed to snag 4000 !!!! And on another occasion, He had 5000 !!!! (go read up on the loaves and fishes !!)


So, I'm finding a 500 witness event being somewhat of a letdown.

[Minimalist]

Right.... but jesus didn't project very well.

[Harry Nevis]

Which is just another way of saying that there aren't any.

When someone says they don't find the evidence for miracles compelling, and so they don't believe them, I get that.

When someone says that they don't believe in miracles due to a factor that's present in the definition of miracle itself, that's a poor argument.

---

By definition they go against the way the universe works. there has never been one verifiable example of that actually happening.

Once there's verifiable examples of something happening, that something is part of the way the universe works, even if we don't yet understand it.

Yeah, you gotta keep those definitions vague enough to give the apologists some wriggle room.

[John V]

Your claims create even more problems.

Here are just a few:

If the Bible is an accurate representation of Yahweh, even if he did exist, I'd want nothing to do with him.

How is that problematic for me? It doesn't bother me at all.

He condones and creates rules for slavery, including: who I can own, that I can pass them down to my children as property, it's okay to beat them as long as they don't die in a couple of days, how to sell my daughter into sex slavery.

Do you think slave owners are wicked? What's a just punishment for them?

He rewards beliefs and not deeds.

He rewards and punishes beliefs and deeds. Don't you do the same? Consider two people. Neither owns a slave. Neither does anything to try to help slaves (while slavery has decreased in percentage terms, in gross numbers it's bigger today than ever). Person A condemns the slavery provisions in the OT as you do. Person B defends those provisions. If you only judge on deeds and not beliefs, you see no difference between these two. But I'll bet you think better of A than of B.

Although he has the power to simply forgive humanity for original sin, he had to set up the most baroque situation, where he came to earth in physical form,  in order to sacrifice himself, to himself, in order to create a loophole for his own rules.

You have the power to simply forgive slave owners, but I take it you don't.

But the problem is, this search can and does lead to the situation where many searchers get it so wrong, that they will end up in hell. Do you believe that every person who claims to be a Christian, no matter how much their beliefs differ from yours, will get into heaven?

Not to mention, I was a sincere searcher for many years. Yahweh never said a word.

Why were you searching?
What did you think of Romans 3:9-18 during your search?

Nice bit of fan fiction there.

It's not fan fiction. It's said just a few chapters in - see Gen 6:3. Psalm 81:11-12 is another example. Also Romans 1:18-32.

[Harry Nevis]

Your claims create even more problems.

Here are just a few:

If the Bible is an accurate representation of Yahweh, even if he did exist, I'd want nothing to do with him.

How is that problematic for me? It doesn't bother me at all.

He condones and creates rules for slavery, including: who I can own, that I can pass them down to my children as property, it's okay to beat them as long as they don't die in a couple of days, how to sell my daughter into sex slavery.

Do you think slave owners are wicked? What's a just punishment for them?

He rewards beliefs and not deeds.

He rewards and punishes beliefs and deeds. Don't you do the same? Consider two people. Neither owns a slave. Neither does anything to try to help slaves (while slavery has decreased in percentage terms, in gross numbers it's bigger today than ever). Person A condemns the slavery provisions in the OT as you do. Person B defends those provisions. If you only judge on deeds and not beliefs, you see no difference between these two. But I'll bet you think better of A than of B.

Although he has the power to simply forgive humanity for original sin, he had to set up the most baroque situation, where he came to earth in physical form,  in order to sacrifice himself, to himself, in order to create a loophole for his own rules.

You have the power to simply forgive slave owners, but I take it you don't.

But the problem is, this search can and does lead to the situation where many searchers get it so wrong, that they will end up in hell. Do you believe that every person who claims to be a Christian, no matter how much their beliefs differ from yours, will get into heaven?

Not to mention, I was a sincere searcher for many years. Yahweh never said a word.

Why were you searching?
What did you think of Romans 3:9-18 during your search?

Nice bit of fan fiction there.

It's not fan fiction. It's said just a few chapters in - see Gen 6:3. Psalm 81:11-12 is another example. Also Romans 1:18-32.

Equating god's decisions with a human's decisions just shows the shallowness of your reasoning.