Why do you think atheists pay so much attention to religion?

[Cinjin]

What with the whole point of atheism being not accepting *god*fable, superstition, myth, irrational philosophy as credible or true, how is it that it seems at any given atheist forum the predominant subject discussed is religion, god, the religious, and it seems Christianity especially?

O come on, in some ways the bible is like Lord of the Rings meets the Brother's Grimm meets crazy desert goat herders. As annoying and dangerous as it can be, sometimes, it's just too damn good to pass up. 2000 years of intrigue, murder, slavery, corruption, torture, misinformation, saints, ghosts, prophets, people flying up into the sky, resurrections, demon possessions, and a water-walker that claims to be his own dad who offered himself up to die for the sins of the whole world and than sends most of those people to eternal damnation anyway.

Are you fuckin kiddin me?? What's NOT to love?!? Who wouldn't talk about this shit?!

[Judas BentHer]

You forgot the witches, wizards, sorcerers, spirits, satyrs, demons, giants, ghosts, dragons, unicorns and the superhero Moses, working with god pulling the strings. Moshe! He who can part red seas in a single wave of his hand, heap plagues upon Egyptians including slaughtering the first born of every house, because his god is pro-life not really, and set his people free because for thousands of years god didn't.

OK, now that you put it that way, good point.

[Violet]

Now stop shitting in my thread.

[BethK]

In the States it's as if there's this unspoken presumption that whenever "god" is mentioned one must be referring to the Christian version. As if standing in majority as the foremost populace faith in America allots an unspoken blanket dominion over all rights and entitlements to pervasiveness in the secular realm as well as inference of supremacy in anything having to do with religion generally.

Indeed. Even non-Christians consider the word "God" to be referring to the Christian God. Few NeoPagans will just call their male divine being "God", but will refer to Him by some particular name, the warrior, the consoler, the hunter, etc. Some will talk about "Goddess", and many of nonChristian religions will refer to their Gods and Goddesses as "the divine" or "a divine being". Jews will write about "G-d", Muslims about "Allah", and so forth. The name "God" refers to a particular storm deity Who talked to Moses gave him the 5 books of the Bible, talked to Abraham and got him ready to sacrifice his son on an altar, talked to many prophets, then got some teenaged girl pregnant with himself, talked her fiance into marrying her anyway and rearing his child.... and the deadbeat didn't pay child support or even as he was omnipotent, make Joseph fabulously wealthy.

This being has stopped talking now. It was so decreed by the Council of Nicea in 321 CE upon their adoption of the last few verse of the Book of Revelation: 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

That is, unless you are certified insane and psychotic, and God talks to some of those people all the time, or are a governor or former governor of the State of Texas who is running for or was elected to the US Presidency. George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, now Troy Perry, in which case it's perfectly acceptable to proclaim in public speeches that you talk to God and receive answers from Him every single day! That somehow gives these guys more credibility, but putting a huge arsenal of weapon of mass destruction plus the title of Commander in Chief of the most effective military in the world in the hands of someone who publicly makes statements like the certifiably insane while they are looking forward to Armageddon, the Rapture, and the Second Coming. Are these people lying to gain credibility with some of their potential voters, or are they telling the truth and actually believe God is telling them what to do, and they take orders from Him, nevermind laws, treaties, the will of other branches of government and the will of the people. Personally, I find it more comforting to believe these people who are or were in or running for high office are lying than to believe they utterly off their nut.

I once had someone ask me in a conversation where it wasn't off topic to posit the question however it was presumptive, and as if they were trying to be PC, if I believed in a higher power. I answered no. To which they responded with wide eyes as they suddenly turned quite pale, but you do believe in god right?

I loved the moment for what it provided as a lesson in their personal insecurity on such matters. They became shocked and afraid that in my personal life choice I chose not to accept that god or any nonsense myth, fable, superstition related to that fictional character was true or rational and as a consequence did not live my life so as to hold faith in it.

I had this happen to me too a couple of months ago. Yeah, she turned pale, wide-eyed, and asked, "But you believe in God, right?" I repeated that no, I do not believe in God, higher powers, genies, fairies, santa claus.... Then, she said, "oh, I guess that means you're agnostic[/a]. (Someone else) believed that way too, but saw Jesus working..." I kept correcting her, "No. I'm not agnostic. That's about knowledge. Agnostic or theist are about belief and evidence. I do not believe in God!" Replied to with, "Okay, so you're an agnostic. blah blah blah." I finally denied the Holy Spirit in front of her. She turned pale, "Do you know what you've DONE? You can never go to Heaven now. Did you think about your Eternal Soul ™?" Yes, I know what I've done, and the only soles I'm worried about are the ones on my feet and on my shoes, and those are not eternal. I just looked at the bottoms of my shoes and said, "Oh, my sole looks fine to me." That lightened up the mood. Then, another day she introduced me to someone and told them, "She's an agnostic too." No, sorry. I'm an atheist. The "agnostic" friend didn't believe in God either, but said it was unknowable. Again, he lacked [i]belief. We all lack absolute knowledge, but with no evidence, the most reasonable state to be in is to lack belief (atheist) unless incontrovertible proof comes to light. It hasn't in the past 4.5 billion years, and I doubt that it will in the next few either.

At the very least though, her Jehovah's Witness friends stay away from our house. LOL Not that she's a JW either, but unbeknownst to her, they have her in their sites.

Christianity, as all faiths are at their core, is a elitist tradition. Certainly everyone who holds faith believes it to be absolute and true for them and their life. However, Christianity seems to inspire a tendency in certain of it's faithful to believe it is the only true faith and as a consequence it's tenets have an entitlement to claim right over all the world and all people in it.

Plus, one of their entitlements is to be handled with kid gloves, lest you somehow insult them or their faith. No one else is entitled to not have their knowledge or beliefs challenged, so why are they special? Another of their entitlements is to run roughshod over anyone in their path, and loudly proclaim their CHRISTIANITY. Never mind that it's general protocol in polite company where you don't know everyone very well to avoid topics such as race, religion, or politics.

I've got the scene from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" with the peasant in the collective yelling "Help! I'm being oppressed!"

So while people are entitled in the States to practice their personal religion freely, certain Christians demonstrate people are not entitled to be free of their religion.

They seem to like that line in 1984 about some being more equal than others. Imagine their reaction if the Satanists came pounding on their door at 8:00 on a Sunday morning trying to convert them to Satanism.

Thus, atheists are deemed sinners. As are agnostics, pagans, any member of any other faith tradition. The secular community is besieged by Christian faithful who make a concerted push to have Christian morality govern in a legislative capacity. As we see when the Bible is put forth as the foundation for moral righteousness when a bill is put forth containing language that would deny gay's their Constitutional rights and protections to be free and equal to straights. And women are prohibited from exercising their personal dominion regarding their reproductive system, etc...

And as you outlined, subterfuge is not beyond certain Christians efforts in promoting their exclusivist agenda that seeks to make everyone compliant to Christian religious values.

That is how they look at it, but it doesn't make any sense watching people's actions.

Christians, in their own mind, are also "sinners" and "not worthy" but yet, because of their belief in God and in Jesus Christ, and their asking to be forgiven, they have these sins taken from them. Their conscience is then white as snow. They can do anything they want, and just ask God to forgive them, and all is forgiven. They are not responsible. They do not have to give restitution to someone they've cheated. They do not have to admit it and "come clean" on lies they told. They can commit adultery or fornication with impunity. They can even conceive children out of wedlock, those who are wrongly assigned to another (man) for support. They can ask for forgiveness each and every time, and are forgiven. But, what of the cuckholded spouse? What of the child born to a single mother, who may not actually WANT the child, and is unsure who the father is or what his last name is or how to find him? Do all of the taxpayers have to chip in for these people's "sin"? They could have used birth control. They could have had an abortion. They could have put the baby up for adoption. They could have engaged in "unnatural acts". They could have even not had sex at all, as their religion teaches them... but they did and got "forgiveness". Now their "sin" has had repercussions on others. Then, they go off and want to make birth control and abortion illegal for everyone else too. Okay, but who rears, teaches, feeds, clothes, and houses the unwanted children?

7 billion little miracles are quite enough.

Oh yeah, and it's going to do that child a world of good to hear that he/she was born as a result of a "sin" - for which the parents were forgiven. But, then their parent(s) "love" them anyway? Just priming them for these obscene definitions of "love" they'll get when coming to believe in Jesus.

There is a word for people also who habitually engage in antisocial behavior, which is agreed upon by their community that it's wrong, they do it anyway, and feel no remorse. That word is sociopath.

In addition to legitimizing psychotic states (hearing voices which are not perceived by others), they are legitimizing sociopathy.

[Judas BentHer]

Nailed it! Well said.

Though of course you're of the devil, delusional and a sinner who's just fooling yourself that you are not so . Just wait until you die and then, when you find yourself in Hell you'll realize you were wrong all along. While those who remain on earth kneeling before the idol that is a Roman capital punishment device and as an idol is against god's law, shall feel satisfied that you arrived there because of your free will.

And they'll not feel a bit ashamed of taking smug satisfaction in relishing your eternal torment as what you deserve for not listening to them, because they are so Christ like as to be simply telling the truth. That the whole world must be made Christian, because there is no other god who loves them like the Bible demonstrates as what a god of love records of himself as proof of that.

Wouldn't you like to see, as a spoof, atheists go door to door like JW's do and instead of asking if someone would like to hear the good news about Jesus, instead asked; have you dared to think you're worth more than accepting you were born to be less?

And to think, Christians think the whole world would be a better place if everyone saw god the same way that they do. And yet, what is missed is not even they can agree on what that means. Hence, secularism.

That's what happens though when it boils down to the conflict and lines in the sand in what amounts to saying; my invisible friend is better than your invisible friend.

[MilesTailsPrower]

Pay so much attention? It's pretty hard not to think about it when some guy has a bible in his hand trying to shove it down your throat. I really don't care anymore, it's about the least of my worries.

[shadowdancer]

I need to pay attention to the mood of religious people.
My place is not safe to atheists, Islamic laws allow or even encourage killing infidels.

So we need to keep both eyes on them.

[Justtristo]

Indeed. Even non-Christians consider the word "God" to be referring to the Christian God. Few NeoPagans will just call their male divine being "God", but will refer to Him by some particular name, the warrior, the consoler, the hunter, etc. Some will talk about "Goddess", and many of nonChristian religions will refer to their Gods and Goddesses as "the divine" or "a divine being". Jews will write about "G-d", Muslims about "Allah", and so forth. The name "God" refers to a particular storm deity Who talked to Moses gave him the 5 books of the Bible, talked to Abraham and got him ready to sacrifice his son on an altar, talked to many prophets, then got some teenaged girl pregnant with himself, talked her fiance into marrying her anyway and rearing his child.... and the deadbeat didn't pay child support or even as he was omnipotent, make Joseph fabulously wealthy.

In Australia at least in my experience that is much the case that god = Yahweh. Although for myself that is not the case, hence I am comfortable in using god as a abstract concept.

I will tell a story, once a I was talking to a guy and he stated "if scientific evidence for god was found, the person who discover it would win the Nobel Prize" and I wondered which god. Now I know he was referring specifically to Yahweh.

Although Australia is the kind of place where Atheists aren't exposed to the kind treatment they get in say the USA. However we have a small evangelical Christian community who despise Atheists, particularly well thought out, outspoken ones. One of the reasons I joined here was to counter the sheer ignorance of those people when they denounce atheism and atheists. I figured it was time to fight fire with fire.

[Epimethean]

This question is much like one which might read, "Why do automobile drivers pay so much attention to cows on the road?"

[Frosty]

Atheists pay attention to religion because peoples beliefs and faiths inform their actions and other peoples actions affect us. For example if creationists are trying to get ID taught in schools then that's a big issue that affects all of us.

You're right in principle, if theists could keep their private beliefs to themselves then atheists would have nothing to discuss, but that's a fantasy that doesn't exist, there are all too many active theist groups who are trying to impose their beliefs on others and that cannot go ignored.