Watching my cat, thinking about god and human nature

[Amarok]

That is not true.

Real people, real death certified by real doctors, real hospitals and places and real come back to life verified by real witnesses in the NDEs experiences prove that God exist and life goes on after the physical death

Yup and none of that is evidence for a god

[Aliza]

Judaism's driving purpose is for Jews to live a good life. I was raised secular Jewish and gained an orthodox education as an adult (I'm no longer a strictly practicing Orthodox). When I consider my life prior to applying Jewish principles, I found it to be less appealing then when I did start applying Jewish principles. I simply find that the quality of my life has improved.

It seems to me you're using Judaism as a crutch, because you feel better as a person while adhering to the religion.

It is no different than drug addicts who feel better when they are on drugs as opposed to being sober.

I'm awfully sorry that you feel that my religion is a crutch for me, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my ability to use critical thinking skills. I suspect that because you don’t know me or what my actual beliefs are, or what Judaism even is (again, playing the numbers game here), that you’re not really in a position to state that my religion is a crutch to me, much in the same sense that drugs are to a drug addict.

I don’t have a strong sense of “religious feels,” but there are some. Really, though, we’re discussing whether or not I can apply critical thinking to my religious beliefs. The skill of critical thinking does not necessary result in the “right” answer, or even the popular answer. It only demonstrates the ability to evaluate something objectively to form a judgment.

But to get back to the point you raised, yes, I do feel better as a person while adhering to my religion. I find that the quality of my life is improved. –And let me take a step back and remind you that I said in my earlier post that Jews believe that Judaism is for Jews. Clearly, Jews are not the only people on Earth, and many other people live happy, full, and meaningful lives utilizing a different (or similar) code of ethics. Just because Judaism is for Jews doesn’t mean that it’s for anyone else, and the quality that we believe that it provides to us doesn’t detract from the quality that other people gain from living other lifestyles.

Let’s start with a simple example. I give 10% of my income to charity. It’s true that doing this does make me feel good, but the factor that motivates me to continue giving money is actually the impact that I see in my community, and not just because my book tells me to do it.
I even used my critical thinking skills to justify my initial donation to charity. At that point in time, my religion had already developed a good track record of providing good advice, so based on that trend of good advice, I concluded that a trial donation was in order. After trying it, I observed that my funds were having a positive impact for those in need, so I felt justified in continuing the practice. Adding to that, I also made some good contacts in the non-profit sector which continues to provide me with avenues for socialization, cause-based activities and events to engage in, and a feeling of purpose and satisfaction knowing that I’m helping improve my community.

If I saw that my money was going into a black hole and no impact was being had on the community, and I still gave money only because my religion tells me, then you’d have a solid argument against my critical thinking skills. (Incidentally, when I see that a non-profit is not utilizing my money appropriately, I stop giving to them.)

[Tartarus Sauce]

Judaism's driving purpose is for Jews to live a good life. I was raised secular Jewish and gained an orthodox education as an adult (I'm no longer a strictly practicing Orthodox). When I consider my life prior to applying Jewish principles, I found it to be less appealing then when I did start applying Jewish principles. I simply find that the quality of my life has improved.

It seems to me you're using Judaism as a crutch, because you feel better as a person while adhering to the religion.

It is no different than drug addicts who feel better when they are on drugs as opposed to being sober.

It seems to me that you make sweeping generalizations of people before getting to know them.

[Silver]

It seems to me that you make sweeping generalizations of people before getting to know them.

I am simply the type of person who sees absolutely no reason for anyone to adhere to any religious beliefs.

---

But to get back to the point you raised, yes, I do feel better as a person while adhering to my religion. I find that the quality of my life is improved. –And let me take a step back and remind you that I said in my earlier post that Jews believe that Judaism is for Jews. Clearly, Jews are not the only people on Earth, and many other people live happy, full, and meaningful lives utilizing a different (or similar) code of ethics. Just because Judaism is for Jews doesn’t mean that it’s for anyone else, and the quality that we believe that it provides to us doesn’t detract from the quality that other people gain from living other lifestyles.

If you can understand how others live fulfilling lifestyles outside of a religious context, what is it precisely that prevents you from doing the same?

[Aliza]

It seems to me that you make sweeping generalizations of people before getting to know them.

I am simply the type of person who sees absolutely no reason for anyone to adhere to any religious beliefs.

---

But to get back to the point you raised, yes, I do feel better as a person while adhering to my religion. I find that the quality of my life is improved. –And let me take a step back and remind you that I said in my earlier post that Jews believe that Judaism is for Jews. Clearly, Jews are not the only people on Earth, and many other people live happy, full, and meaningful lives utilizing a different (or similar) code of ethics. Just because Judaism is for Jews doesn’t mean that it’s for anyone else, and the quality that we believe that it provides to us doesn’t detract from the quality that other people gain from living other lifestyles.

If you can understand how others live fulfilling lifestyles outside of a religious context, what is it precisely that prevents you from doing the same?

I believe that I live a perfectly valid lifestyle. It's one I'm happy and comfortable with and I'm living my for me, and not for anyone else.

[Silver]

I believe that I live a perfectly valid lifestyle. It's one I'm happy and comfortable with and I'm living my for me, and not for anyone else.

If you were to think more critically about it, is there anything in particular that is preventing you from living a perfectly valid, happy and comfortable lifestyle with no adherence to Judaism?

[Aliza]

I believe that I live a perfectly valid lifestyle. It's one I'm happy and comfortable with and I'm living my for me, and not for anyone else.

If you were to think more critically about it, is there anything in particular that is preventing you from living a perfectly valid, happy and comfortable lifestyle with no  adherence to Judaism?

I've thought very critically about this already. Nothing prevents me from being able to live a happy, comfortable lifestyle without Judaism.

[Silver]

I've thought very critically about this already. Nothing prevents me from being able to live a happy, comfortable lifestyle without Judaism.

Thank you for your honesty.

[Astonished]

I've thought very critically about this already. Nothing prevents me from being able to live a happy, comfortable lifestyle without Judaism.

Thank you for your honesty.

I would have added something about, what's to be made of the fact that religions are so exclusionary and elitist and favor in-group members, which does offer incentives (monetary and social) to stay in? Pretty fucked up kind of system to be supporting or belonging to, at least in the eyes of an outsider. I'd ask if there's any defense of that but I doubt it'll be coherent.

[Astreja]

Perhaps god does not intervene to stop human on human violence because he simply does not care about what is happening with us, perhaps god views it as our nature as human beings to act as we do and finds it pointless to intervene in any way.  He is nothing more than a sometimes spectator of the lives far removed from his own nature, much in the way a typical human is uninterested in the lives of ants.

I can see that being the case if all humans had a violent nature, but overall  I think most of us have strong objections to violence.  Perhaps the god in your scenario is observing humanity as two different groups, curious to see which one will win out.