The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

So far I've yet to see anyone disprove what has been presented. Instead I'm just reading "I refuse to believe" against thousands of testimonials from people who didn't know each other.

I don’t think it is a refusal to believe; rather, IMO, it is more like wanting to think freely and openly.  IMO, for some people who choose not to interpret reality through a theistic lens, an important question to ask, especially as it pertains to miracles, is whether belief is a necessary pre-condition in order to observe these miracles.  In other words, can people of all particular mindsets objectively arrive at the truth of these miracles via methods that do not rely on any pre-existing biases? Thus, is it possible to verify a particular religious truth via an approach that is independent/outside of that particular belief system or religion/theism in general? 

[Amarok]

While we're at it, we might as well pick a few random events in history that have plenty of testimonials, and deny those too. Boston tea party? Sounds fishy to me,

A group of men dumping tea in a river to protest a tax . Compared to the idea the sun was moved in the sky by magic etc . These don't even compare .

Abe Lincoln's assassination? I don't believe it could have happened that way

That a man can sneak up and kill another man happens all the time. Compared to the sun being moved in the sky by magic etc.These don't even compare

[Ravenshire]

Is he shy of the press?

Allergic to cameras. They make him all itchy.

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So far I've yet to see anyone disprove what has been presented. Instead I'm just reading "I refuse to believe" against thousands of testimonials from people who didn't know each other.

While we're at it, we might as well pick a few random events in history that have plenty of testimonials, and deny those too. Boston tea party? Sounds fishy to me, therefore it never happened. Abe Lincoln's assassination? I don't believe it could have happened that way, therefore it never happened.

Such is the absurd position of atheists who accept history handed down to them only when it suits them, and deny what they don't personally believe. What hypocrisy. Let an atheist write our history books and we will only get part of what really happened.

Like many of the christers to come before you, you are guilty of shifting the burden. An outlandish claim has been made and you expect us to simply accept it and if we can't refute it, it must be so. That's not how shit works in the real world. If you want us to believe your fairy tale, it's up to you to provide enough evidence to convince us. I don't give a shit what you believe about it. You want me to believe, you're stuck with the burden of proof. So far, with just testimony, you're far short of it.

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While we're at it, we might as well pick a few random events in history that have plenty of testimonials, and deny those too. Boston tea party? Sounds fishy to me,

A group of men dumping tea in a river to protest a tax . Compared to the idea the sun was moved in the sky by magic etc . These don't even compare .

Abe Lincoln's assassination? I don't believe it could have happened that way

That a man can sneak up and kill another man happens all the time. Compared to the sun being moved in the sky by magic etc.These don't even compare

Wow. I missed the arguments from incredulity being used as evidence for a miracle. Is there any level of bullshit and deceit that some christer will not descend to?

[Amarok]

Is he shy of the press?

Allergic to cameras. They make him all itchy.

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So far I've yet to see anyone disprove what has been presented. Instead I'm just reading "I refuse to believe" against thousands of testimonials from people who didn't know each other.

While we're at it, we might as well pick a few random events in history that have plenty of testimonials, and deny those too. Boston tea party? Sounds fishy to me, therefore it never happened. Abe Lincoln's assassination? I don't believe it could have happened that way, therefore it never happened.

Such is the absurd position of atheists who accept history handed down to them only when it suits them, and deny what they don't personally believe. What hypocrisy. Let an atheist write our history books and we will only get part of what really happened.

Like many of the christers to come before you, you are guilty of shifting the burden. An outlandish claim has been made and you expect us to simply accept it and if we can't refute it, it must be so. That's not how shit works in the real world. If you want us to believe your fairy tale, it's up to you to provide enough evidence to convince us. I don't give a shit what you believe about it. You want me to believe, you're stuck with the burden of proof. So far, with just testimony, you're far short of it.

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A group of men dumping tea in a river to protest a tax . Compared to the idea the sun was moved in the sky by magic etc . These don't even compare .




That a man can sneak up and kill another man happens all the time. Compared to the sun being moved in the sky by magic etc.These don't even compare

Wow. I missed the arguments from incredulity being used as evidence for a miracle. Is there any level of bullshit and deceit that some christer will not descend to?

Indeed desperation at it's finest

[KevinM1]

OP: You all cannot disprove my untestable claim, therefore I win!
The rest of us:

[Amarok]

Such is the absurd position of atheists who accept history handed down to them only when it suits them, and deny what they don't personally believe. What hypocrisy. Let an atheist write our history books and we will only get part of what really happened.

Nope it's got nothing to do with what suits me. I have already shown the difference in said claims . And the problems with yours . So no hypocrisy to be found . One would have us believe that for a brief period entirety of celestial mechanics and gravity was suspended based on inconsistent testimony . Contradicted by the rest of the human populous and even people who were there. To a some guys pushing some tea into the water and someone being shot from behind.

[Astonished]

The easiest answer to any of that is, history has very little significance of any kind other than to fulfill that old adage, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". If we hear stories about the fuck-ups of people in the past, and avoid those fuck-ups ourselves, then that history has served its purpose, whether true or not. Only those historical claims pertaining to religion are significant SOLELY on the condition that they are true. So they can't even use that analogy effectively.

[Cecelia]

So let's get this straight...

a bunch of people supposedly see the sun 'dancing' (though their accounts are conflicting) yet nobody on earth sees this happening despite... you know the fact that we all see the same sun. And of course there's absolutely ZERO photographs of the phenomenon. Despite reporters being there and all...

Oh and this is what's considered a 'miracle' these days?

God: Let's create a miracle!

Alan Rickman (RIP): To make the people believe, sir?

God: Of course! I'll send a woman down there, and tell them that a miracle will be on a specific date AND time.

Alan Rickman: I must say, this is one of your better ideas.

God: And then... I'm going to make the sun dance!

Alan Rickman: You're going to... make the sun dance? So everyone on earth is going to see it?

God: Of course not! It'll be a localized phenomenon.

Alan Rickman: I don't think you understand how the sun you created works exactly... you see...

God: And then I'm going to dry their clothes!

Alan Rickman: There are no words...

God: I mean what better miracle than making the sun dance, and drying their clothes!?

Alan Rickman: So.. instead of ending world hunger, curing cancer, ending disease, Curing blindness, or giving people regenerative properties like you did Lizards... you're going to make the sun.. dance?

God: And dry their clothes! Weren't you listening?

Alan Rickman: You know what? Just send me to hell right now. Because I've met you, and I'm still not sure I can believe in you.

[Minimalist]

So far I've yet to see anyone disprove what has been presented.

You want us to disprove your mental aberrations?  Fuck off, douchebag.

And take your virgin mary and blow her out your ass while you're at it.

[Amarok]

So let's get this straight...

a bunch of people supposedly see the sun 'dancing' (though their accounts are conflicting) yet nobody on earth sees this happening despite... you know the fact that we all see the same sun.  And of course there's absolutely ZERO photographs of the phenomenon.  Despite reporters being there and all...

Oh and this is what's considered a 'miracle' these days?  

God: Let's create a miracle!

Alan Rickman (RIP): To make the people believe, sir?

God: Of course!  I'll send a woman down there, and tell them that a miracle will be on a specific date AND time.

Alan Rickman: I must say, this is one of your better ideas.

God: And then... I'm going to make the sun dance!

Alan Rickman: You're going to... make the sun dance?  So everyone on earth is going to see it?

God: Of course not!  It'll be a localized phenomenon.  

Alan Rickman: I don't think you understand how the sun you created works exactly... you see...

God: And then I'm going to dry their clothes!

Alan Rickman: There are no words...

God: I mean what better miracle than making the sun dance, and drying their clothes!?

Alan Rickman: So.. instead of ending world hunger, curing cancer, ending disease, Curing blindness, or giving people regenerative properties like you did Lizards... you're going to make the sun.. dance?

God: And dry their clothes!  Weren't you listening?

Alan Rickman: You know what?  Just send me to hell right now.  Because I've met you, and I'm still not sure I can believe in you.

After

Alan Rickman : Um god not everyone in the local area saw it . And some are saying the clothes thing never happened.

God : Shit probably should have done something like create a second moon out of thin air . That says made by god and have it orbit the earth.

Alan Rickman : Why didn't you ?

God : I'm not very god at this whole miracle thing .

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So far I've seen everyone disprove what has been presented.

There fixed that