The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[Minimalist]

Picture a stadium full of 70,000 people. Can you think of a way that you could freak all of them out at once and make them think it's the end of the world? I can't.

A naked Donald Trump chasing a naked big-titted cheerleader from one end zone to the other trying to grab her pussy.

[Whateverist]

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You're undeservedly giving them the benefit of the doubt...

Yeah well I try not to be an asshole all of the time.

That way you can come out sharper, bringing your best asshole game whenever it is needed.  You still got it.

[KevinM1]

Google Derek Acorah some day. He's done a one man demolition of "paranormal" investigations scams (as one of the scammers he managed it without meaning to).

Anyone watching one of those shows with a critical mind (I know, I know...) can tell they're bullshit from moment one. An actual scientific inquiry isn't as sloppy as a bunch of amateurs walking around in dark buildings talking to themselves while pointing FLIR cameras at various things for the small sample size of 6-8 hours.

I do love how they all state that ghosts/spirits emit electromagnetic energy that can be traced/tracked as though that claim is obvious and doesn't need to be justified.

The whole thing is basically wish fulfillment. A bunch of people with normal, mundane jobs (read: no scientific training) who just happen to be able to detect ghosts! So, not only could Joe Six-Pack detect ghosts if he wanted to, but it confirms all of his ignorant suspicions, too! Take that, formal education and critical thought!

[Crossless2.0]

Google Derek Acorah some day. He's done a one man demolition of "paranormal" investigations scams (as one of the scammers he managed it without meaning to).

Anyone watching one of those shows with a critical mind (I know, I know...) can tell they're bullshit from moment one.  An actual scientific inquiry isn't as sloppy as a bunch of amateurs walking around in dark buildings talking to themselves while pointing FLIR cameras at various things for the small sample size of 6-8 hours.

I do love how they all state that ghosts/spirits emit electromagnetic energy that can be traced/tracked as though that claim is obvious and doesn't need to be justified.

The whole thing is basically wish fulfillment.  A bunch of people with normal, mundane jobs (read: no scientific training) who just happen to be able to detect ghosts!  So, not only could Joe Six-Pack detect ghosts if he wanted to, but it confirms all of his ignorant suspicions, too!  Take that, formal education and critical thought!

Oh, but there's unbiased peer review! After all, the producer who edits the program wouldn't have any reason to skew the audience's perception. Legit!

Take that, skepticism!

[Jackalope]

A bunch of people with normal, mundane jobs (read: no scientific training) who just happen to be able to detect ghosts!

They would have got away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids.

[pabsta]

Okay, let's say for sake of argument that the people were all wrong and that the sun did NOT spin and did NOT hurl towards the earth. If we look at all the testimonials, this is what they perceived, and is the best way they chose to describe it. But let's say their description was wrong. SOMETHING obviously happened and that SOMETHING was obviously very significant or they would not have all agreed that their clothes dried instantly, nor would they have agreed that they thought it was the end of the world and that they were going to die. Nor would the newspapers have printed anything the following day.

Picture a stadium full of 70,000 people. Can you think of a way that you could freak all of them out at once and make them think it's the end of the world? I can't. So whatever it was that happened that day, it was obviously HUGE. Most people wouldn't want to admit they thought it was the end of the world, and that they were on their knees crying like a baby because they were so scared, but these people admitted that. Something HUGE freaked them all out in an instant, and whatever it was it was predicted 3 months earlier by 3 children who said a lady told them it would happen. No one would have been there to see the incident if it hadn't been for the 3 children. THIS much cannot be denied.

If the Sun danced, then why did nobody else in the country see it?  Or anybody else in anywhere else in the world where it was day time?  Why only those people in that one spot?  Seems kind of odd to me that only those '70,000' people (the actual number there is likely exaggerated)  would see the sun dancing.  If you were 200 miles away, you should still be able to see it.  Because that's the thing about the sun.  You can see it pretty much everywhere.  And why is it not in the astrological record?

But you won't address this, because you can't.

Nor can you address the fact that around half of the people there said they saw nothing, and some had differing accounts of what happened.  Not to mention that it's not very miraculous in the first place.  (oh look!  the sun is dancing.  I'm sure this'll end world hunger/cause world peace/etc..")

What happened that day?  A bunch of people went to a place, expecting to see something.  Some probably saw something from the power of suggestion (and perhaps from staring at the sun too long..).  I can't say for certain what happened, because I wasn't there.  Nobody here was.  There's no pictures of the event taking place.  There's certainly no video.  We can only go by eyewitness accounts, which are at best hazy.  Remember that many people came from all over to see this event, so they were expecting to see something, though.  They were already believers.  (A lot of good this 'miracle' did, convincing people who already believed that what they believe is true).    So they were susceptible to suggestion.

I've already addressed this in a previous post. The author claims that from his research, the miracle was visible within a 600 square mile area. Testimonials show that everyone who was there that day saw it. There are no testimonials of people who were on the spot who said they saw nothing. Reading other testimonials confirms this. Remember, THOUSANDS of pages of testimonials were reviewed by the Catholic Church over 13 years. And as I already mentioned, the book I mentioned gives many examples of people that were NOT believers and who went to the site to mock the whole idea. They left as believers. You should really get the book because everything you are saying is covered in it.

[Minimalist]

THOUSANDS of pages of testimonials were reviewed by the Catholic Church over 13 years.

With all the altar boys they were butt-fucking you wouldn't think they'd have the time.

[Pat Mustard]

Derek Acorah? As in Most Haunted?





Kreed Kafer

Has he gone straight now?

No I was thinking of his Most Haunted Scammed antics.

[pabsta]

According to this site, this is what was reported:

A hora antiga é a que regula para esta multidão, que calculos desapaixonados de pessoas cultas e de todo o ponto alheias ás influencias místicas computam em trinta ou quarenta mil creaturas... A manifestação miraculosa, o sinal visível anunciado está prestes a produzir-se – asseguram muitos romeiros... E assiste-se então a um espectaculo unico e inacreditavel para quem não foi testemunha d'ele. Do cimo da estrada, onde se aglomeram os carros e se conservam muitas centenas de pessoas, a quem escasseou valor para se meter á terra barrenta, vê-se toda a imensa multidão voltar-se para o sol, que se mostra liberto de nuvens, no zenit. O astro lembra uma placa de prata fosca e é possível fitar-lhe o disco sem o minimo esforço. Não queima, não cega. Dir-se-hia estar-se realizando um eclipse. Mas eis que um alarido colossal se levanta e aos espectadores que se encontram mais perto se ouve gritar:
– Milagre, milagre! Maravilha, maravilha!
Aos olhos deslumbrados d'aquele povo, cuja atitude nos transporta aos tempos bíblicos e que, palido de assombro, com a cabeça descoberta, encara o azul, o sol tremeu, o sol teve nunca vistos movimentos bruscos fóra de todas as leis cosmicas – o sol «bailou», segundo a tipica expressão dos camponezes... Empoleirado nos estribos do auto-omnibus de Torres Novas, um ancião cuja estatura e cuja fisionomia, ao mesmo tempo doce e energica, lembram as de Paul Déroulède, recita, voltado para o sol, em voz clamorosa, de principio a fim, o Credo. Pergunto quem é e dizem-me ser o sr. João Maria Amado de Mello Ramalho da Cunha Vasconcellos. Vejo-o depois dirigir-se aos que o rodeiam e que se conservaram de chapeu na cabeça, suplicando-lhes, veementemente, que se descubram em face de tão extraordinaria demonstração da existencia de Deus. Cenas identicas repetem-se n'outros pontos e uma senhora clama, banhada em aflitivo pranto e quasi n'uma sufocacão:
– Que lastima! Ainda ha homens que se não descobrem deante de tão estupendo milagre!
E, a seguir, perguntam uns aos outros se viram e o que viram. O maior numero confessa que viu a tremura, o bailado do sol; outros, porem, declaram ter visto o rosto risonho da propria Virgem, juram que o sol girou sobre si mesmo como uma roda de fogo de artificio, que ele baixou quasi a ponto de queimar a terra com os seus raios... Ha quem diga que o viu mudar sucessivamente de côr...

Which translates roughly (by me) to:

The ancient hour regulates this crowd, that dispassionate calculations by knowledgeable people and everywhere unaware of the mystic influences compute in thirty or forty thousand creatures... The miraculous manifestation, the announced visible sign is about to happen - so many roamers assure themselves... And that is when a unique spectacle  and unbelievable for who didn't witness it. From the top of the road, where the cars bundle up and hundreds of people stand, to whom failed the bravery to step on the muddy earth, you can see the immense crowd turn to the sun, that is now clear of clouds, at its zenith. The star looks like a dull silver disc and it's possible to look at it with minimum effort. It doesn't burn, it doesn't blind. One would say an eclipse was happening. And that is when a commotion among the nearer spectators and you hear shouting:
- Miracle, miracle! Wonder, wonder!
To the amazed eyes of that people, whose attitude carries us to biblical times and whom, pale with wonder, with the head uncovered, faces the blue, the sun trembled, the sun had never before seen sudden movements out of every cosmic laws - the sun "danced", according to the typical farmers' expression... leaning from the sides of the bus from Torres Novas, an elder whose stature (blahblah... looks like some guy, turns out to be a) Mr João Maria Amado de Mello Ramalho da Cunha Vasconcellos. I see him addressing those around him and that keep their hats on, vehemently begging them  to uncover themselves, facing such an extraordinary display of the existence of God. Similar scenes are repeated in other places and a lady shouts, washed in a worrisome cry and almost suffocating:
- What a shame! There are still men who will not uncover before such stupendous miracle!
And then they ask each other if they saw what they saw. The larger number confesses to seeing the trembling, the sun dancing; others, however, declare to having seen the smiling face of the Virgin herself, they swear that the sun spun over itself, like a fireworks wheel, that it came down almost to the point of burning the earth with its rays... Some say they saw it successfully change color...

So there you go.
The crowd was estimated at 30 to 40 thousand, not 70.
Most saw a trembling, at best. Spread out, some people spurred everyone around them to "see" something more...
Even though, many people remained unfased... as if nothing much had happened.
And a few fringe folk claimed the more outlandish things, like the sun coming down and changing color and spinning

So... at best, one can reliable say that people saw the sun tremble.
Is that so unlikely, given that it had been raining and it was now a radiant sunshine? At its zenith, it was noon, after all... as water evaporates and rises, some atmospheric lensing effects are bound to happen. Specially, even, in a place with the topology of Cova da Iria... luckily, the clue is in the name: cova translates to "hole in the ground"... the region has a bit of a parabolic shape, which helps to produce some cool effects in the Summer months.
Similar to the distortions we all see just above a hot road - hey look, a flying car!!


Can't say it's a common phenomenon, but the cameras present on site failed to capture it...

Here's what they did capture:

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Yeah... people... even the ones looking up, have a bit of a skeptical look about them...

I already previously posted the English translations to what was printed in the newspapers the following day. I will paste them here again since you obviously missed it:

Diario de Noticias:
“At one o’clock the rain stopped. The sky had a certain gray clarity but seemed to suddenly be getting darker. The sun seemed veiled in gauze. We could look at it without strain. The gray tint of mother-of-pearl began changing as if into a silver disc that was growing and growing... until it broke the clouds! Then the silvery sun, still shrouded in that grayish light, began to rotate and wander within the circle of the receded clouds!
“The people cried out with one voice. Thousands, transported by ecstasy fell to their knees upon the muddy ground. Then, as if it were shining through the stained glass windows of a great cathedral, the light became a rare blue, spreading its rays upon the nave... Slowly the blue faded away and now the light seemed to be filtered through yellow. Yellow spots were falling now upon the white kerchiefs and dark shirts of coarse wool. They were spots which repeated themselves indefinitely over the landscape. All the people were weeping and praying bareheaded, weighted down by the greatness of the miracle. These were seconds, moments, that seemed hours...”
 
O Século:
“From beside the parked carriages and where many thousands stood, afraid to descend into the muddy soil of the Cova da Iria, we saw the immense crowd turn toward the sun at its highest, free of all clouds. The sun seemed to us like a plate of dull silver. It could be seen without the least effort. It did not blind or burn. It seemed as though an eclipse were taking place. All of a sudden a tremendous shout burst forth, ‘Miracle, miracle!’
“Before the astonished eyes of the people, whose attitude carried us back to Biblical times, and who, white with terror, heads uncovered, gazed at the sun which trembled and made brusque and unheard of movement beyond all cosmic laws, the sun seemed literally to dance in the sky.
“Immediately afterward the people asked each other if they saw anything and what they had seen. The greatest number avowed that they saw the sun trembling and dancing; others declared they saw the smiling face of the Blessed Virgin herself. They swore that the sun turned around on itself as if it were a wheel of fireworks and had fallen almost to the point of burning the earth with its rays. Some said they saw it change colors successively.”

This CONFIRMS that SOMETHING HUGE happened the day before, or the newspapers wouldn't have printed these articles. The people would never have showed up there in the first place if it weren't for the children announcing there would be a miracle there 3 months earlier. It's obvious you people are trying to avoid the inevitable answer here!

[FatAndFaithless]

Yup..newspapers have never printed wildly inaccurate stories based on poorly-verified sources and sensationalism in order to sell copies..