White supremacists and counter protesters clash in Charlottesville

[Rev. Rye]

The majority of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves nor did they come from a family that owned slaves.  Most of them fought because their home state was invaded.  Studies of surviving Confederate soldier diaries find slavery rarely mentioned.  Hatred toward invading "Yankees" was much more common.

This is part of the turning the Civil War into a comic book thing I was talking about.  Some did fight for slavery, but most did not.

So you're honestly saying that most of those who fought for the south were absolutely against slavery, but as much as they were against slavery, they were even more against those no good rotten god damned assholes from the North who had the nerve to come to their state in an effort to end the slavery they were actually against in the first place. Is that what you're saying? Because that sure sounds like that's what you're saying.

Here's the thing: he's talking about the grunts who did the actual fighting; I recently rewatched Ken Burns' Civil War miniseries and I can remember Shelby Foote telling a story about a Union soldier finding a poor Confederate soldier in Virginia and asking him why he was fighting and he said "I'm fighting because you're down here." That said, there is one crucial thing Rahul failed to note: while many individual soldiers (up to and including Robert E. Lee) fought mostly in defense of their home states, there was a severe disconnect in why the troops fought and why the Confederate States of America had them sending them to war in the first place.

While the soldiers themselves might not have had "this is for the right to enslave black people" in mind when they fought (and it may not have been something most of them would have considered wrong), looking at the founding documents of the Confederacy, from the original articles of secession, to the constitution (mostly a copy of the US constitution changed to be more racist), and even the cornerstone speech by Confederate VP Alexander Stephens, it seems the actual powers that were didn't seem to have much else in mind.

Remembering this crucial disconnect between the motives of the people actually doing the fighting and who they were fighting for, the admiration many Southerners who wouldn't even identify as racist have for the Confederacy makes quite a bit of sense.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Fact: The Civil War was not about "states' rights."

The proof? The Confederate Constitution specifically forbade states to outlaw slavery, and demanded that the constituent states honor slavery claims arising in another state.

I'm on my phone right now and cannot conveniently link supporting documentation, but anyone doubting this, question here ITT and when I get home I will link you to the clauses in aforementioned Constitution.

It had nothing to do with states' rights until decades after the fact. Period.

[Rev. Rye]

Constitution of the Confederate States, Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 4: "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Article 4, Section 2, Paragraph 1: "The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. "

Article 4, Section 3, Paragraph 3: "The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States."

Turns out, this was remarkably easy, since, unlike the US Constitution, they actually used the term "slave" and not "Person[s] held to Service or Labor." The Confederate Government did not mince words on this issue, and they made sure not to do so multiple times throughout their constitution. At least copy-paste is a lot easier on my laptop than whatever phone you're using.

You're welcome, Thumpy.

[Catholic_Lady]

A 32 year old woman was killed, and 19 or so were injured. Plus, a State Trooper helicopter crashed in the area, killing two. Not sure if that's related. I haven't been following that one.

That is awful...

[bennyboy]

I feel like with the douchebaggery of the Republicans, and the growing white movement in the south, that the civil war hasn't ended after all-- it was just under an extended cease-fire.

[Rev. Rye]

I feel like with the douchebaggery of the Republicans, and the growing white movement in the south, that the civil war hasn't ended after all-- it was just under an extended cease-fire.

And with the recent shit happening with North Korea, it's like Trump's White House is hell-bent on reigniting stalled civil conflicts. Who bets that if North Korea ends up being resolved, they'll get back to starting up The Troubles in Northern Ireland?

[Court Jester]

I feel like with the douchebaggery of the Republicans, and the growing white movement in the south, that the civil war hasn't ended after all-- it was just under an extended cease-fire.

Oh, please. Let's not be too overly dramatic.
It was a national organization that couldn't muster more than a few hundred ass hats to protest for the weekend. That hardly points to a mass issue.

[bennyboy]

As far as I'm concerned, the statues SHOULD stay up. Just because the South had the wrong view on slavery doesn't mean that great men weren't great men, or that they weren't an important part of American history.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Pfft. This is nobody's fault. These are supremacists having a hissy-fit; this is democracy in action.

Now, if it were a peaceful march on the mall in DC, it would of course be a threat to the Republic.

Go figure.

On the contrary, It is EVERYBODY'S fault. 

These people are NOT the fringe. These people live and work among us everywhere, always have. This is what we need to face.

I was being sarcastic. I had hoped my last sentence would have made that clear.

[Minimalist]

Why do any soldiers fight?