Mass shooting in Las Vegas. 50+ dead

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Gun control" means you hit what you aim at. "Gun ownership" needs to be controlled.

[Brian37]

"Gun control" means you hit what you aim at. "Gun ownership" needs to be controlled.

Oh now we cant have a sane firearm owner dissenting from the insane worshipers now.

I would just add while I agree, the ability to hit a target matters. BUT there is still a HUGE difference between target shooting for sport, or hunting for sport, and defending yourself under a stressful situation. Police and military have to have constant muscle training and stress training to maximize their ability to preform under stress in a conflict. Most civilians don't have that same training.

But somehow the nutters will stupidly read what we type and see that as a call for a one party dictatorship, which is not what you or I are saying.

But, it is refreshing to know some firearm owners get it. 

Meanwhile in fantasy land, the nutters will make excuses for the climate that lead to Vegas, and since then 3 more dead in workplace violence. BUT who gives a shit right? Gotta protect the profits of the companies don't we?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I trained for four years before I joined the Navy. The instructors at boot camp were stunned. The one-legged Marine that taught me made me work all summer for the privilege of firing one of his long guns. Safety was his mantra. (I was training alongside his son, a classmate of mine, so he was very strong on safety.)

[The Grand Nudger]

My "constant training" told me that in any home defense situation you're already passed the point of shooting..and have entered hand to hand territory.  

Honestly, though, it doesn;t take anything in the way of training to realize that firing a gun in your house is a bad idea..after all, the people who keep guns in their house "for defense" are worried about a gun being fired in their house in the first place.  Similarly, no amount of training makes it a better idea. If I ever reached for one of my guns to defend my home, it would be to beat the shit out of some asshole with the stock....but that's what a baseball bat is for, eh? Not that I;d ever get into it with a burglar anyway. Way too much to lose, nothing at all to gain.

---

Fun fact, on the little form you have to fill out for a background check...they ask for the "intended purpose of".....a response of "home defense"  indicates..at the very least, a conceptual willingness to shoot someone with it - if not an outright expectation or desire.

That's a red flag to me right off the bat.  A person who purchases a firearm so that they might, if the chance arises, get to blast a motherfucker with it...... probably shouldn't have a gun. At the very least we coul;d steer them towards bean bags. Or maybe they just need to buy one of those little stress squeezies to handle their irrational fears of a home invasion scenario. Cheaper and entirely less dangerous..and iof they have to, they could throw the fucking thing at an intruder.

[Brian37]

CL, I love you, but firearm death OF ALL KINDS, from both legal and illegal has been an epidemic for DECADES.

I am tired of "motive" being brought up. The end result be it suicide, family violence, mentally ill, terrorist, workplace violence, ect....... It remains we make way too many firearms and they are way too easy to obtain. 

Mental health is is important but that has more to do with the fact that we DONT have universal health care and we dont have livable wages for workers. It still means regardless of motive we still don't VET buyers and we hand firearms out like candy.

I agree. We definitely need better gun control.

Well, this also has to do with religion too. I am happy you are not a right wing fundy, but the far right, the paranoid, the selfish, the tribal exist in every religion to greater or lesser degrees. 

If you can accept a violent sect like ISIS loves the Koran and will defend it with weapons and violence, all I can say our western society has only put a leash on our Christians, so far. It is still the same bible they use that you do.

The blind loyalty to a religion overlaps and works like any addiction, including obsession with firearms. Humans simply do not like their social norms upset.

I would love nothing more than for religions to live in peace, and for firearm owners to be happy too. But like anything in life, there is no such thing as a utopia and I don't see either our far right religion or firearm worshipers having any reason or pragmatism.

The pragmatists, the sane, need to do a better job of getting the message across that we are NOT calling for 100% ban on all firearms. Unfortunately for decades the makers and NRA have successfully scared just enough of sizable minority of gun owners, those far right are holding everyone hostage, including fellow firearm owners whom would agree with us.

[Brian37]

I trained for four years before I joined the Navy. The instructors at boot camp were stunned. The one-legged Marine that taught me made me work all summer for the privilege of firing one of his long guns. Safety was his mantra. (I was training alongside his son, a classmate of mine, so he was very strong on safety.)

I failed out of Air Force basic. Not for the PT part, but after a lifetime of being bullied prior to joining, I wasn't ready emotionally for being yelled at from 5 am to 10:30pm at night. 

But if we left it up to the gun worshipers, even knowing how horrible I was when we shot our M16s, they'd force me not only to "buck it up" but have a deadly weapon I cant aim worth shit and force me to stay in a bad combo.

Seriously, why the fuck would you want someone in any job, if they couldn't handle it? 

Funny thing was, I found the push ups and sit ups and obstacle course easy, plus they did that en mass so the DIs had so many to deal with the likelihood of being singled out was low. Unlike the smaller platoon dorms where you got yelled at by the squad leader and the unit DI constantly. 

So some would think its an awesome idea to frighten an already sensitive kid, emotionally browbeat them then hand them a weapon?

I failed because THAT is exactly what should happen. I wasn't qualified. Unfortunately the way our laws are for civilians, you can have emotional problems, have no record at time of buy, and not be self aware to consider that emotional problems and weapons are not a good combo.

Considering my lack of knowledge and emotional state at the time, I am glad I failed, because I cant imagine what would have happened to me, or what I could have done, if I had suffered PTSD from seeing combat. 

I know what it is like and how horrifying to watch my mom die peacefully, it has to be that much worse when it comes to witnessing violent death.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

(Generic "you" used throughout.)

There's this about boot camp. If you can't handle the stress when nobody's actually shooting at you then you'll never make when people ARE trying to kill you. Nothing personal, just the way it is. One of the problems with the Vietnam-era Army was just about everybody finished boot camp, even those that should have been ASMO'd.

The DIs wanted people to pass, we need people. But if you can't follow instructions on how to fold your underwear we shouldn't give you a gun.

[The Grand Nudger]

I got a bunch of those assholes when I was overseas.  I worried more about getting shot by one of them than any enemy. Apparently, people were tripping over themselves to join just as the army was drastically changing the acceptable actions of a drill instructor.

[Brian37]

(Generic "you" used throughout.)

There's this about boot camp. If you can't handle the stress when nobody's actually shooting at you then you'll never make when people ARE trying to kill you. Nothing personal, just the way it is. One of the problems with the Vietnam-era Army was just about everybody finished boot camp, even those that should have been ASMO'd.

The DIs wanted people to pass, we need people. But if you can't follow instructions on how to fold your underwear we shouldn't give you a gun.

Correct me if I missed something.

I am GLAD I failed, not one bit ashamed. I wanted to follow orders, in fact one time a DI complemented me for polishing my boots really well. But, I didn't respond correctly in saying thank you because you are supposed to respond with, "Sir, Airman Joe Blow reports, thank you SIR!" All I said was "Thank you,". He pulled a demerit out of my pocket, again, you have to take into account I took everything personally and had no clue that it was just a test. I cried for hours over things like that.

I did do something right, once I had guard duty at the dorm, and you are instructed, NOT to let someone in if they don't give you proper ID the first time. So our DI knocks on the door, I see him through the window, and with the proper response ask him for his ID. IF I am remembering correctly the only thing I was allowed to accept was his MILITARY ID, he produced his drivers licence. In that case, producing the wrong ID you direct them to command office above them. I got that correct, but it shook me to my core and I was scared shitless. 

All I am saying is why would it be a good idea to let me have a weapon? I wont even have one now, precisely because I accept I cant handle stress.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I got a bunch of those assholes when I was overseas.  I worried more about getting shot by one of them than any enemy.  Apparently, people were tripping over themselves to join just as the army was drastically changing the acceptable actions of a drill instructor.

Yeah. It doesn't end at boot camp either. For my first assignment I was sent into a classroom with 19 other guys. We were told to stand at a desk. There was a .45 and a holster and belt on the desk. 

"The pieces are empty, put the belt on and holster the piece." 

Everybody who did that without checking the piece themselves was sent away. First test is the best test.