One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.

[WinterHold]

Always fun when others tell me what I believe in 🙄

It's even more hilarious when I see others saying things, and when criticized they begin to bash through privatizing their views which -ironically- they just made public for opinions !

Christianity is not a personal property you own; dear pool. It's an open faith (or at least that's what missionaries of the faith say), with a book open for reading, with teachings made open for the Kufars like me.

Just like Islamic texts; Christian texts are open for criticism. I don't criticize you: I criticize Christianity. What is hilarious, is using the privacy claim to protect yourself from criticism, even though you agreed to debate in the first place, and you even agreed to carry on an open, public view.

If you don't want to be criticized, write your views in facebook and make the status private. But as long as you do it in a public forum, made for debating and criticizing, expect to be criticized.

Or get your own religion with the first rule in it to be: "Don't criticize me !"

[Aroura]

Also, isn’t it obviously one of those lies the powerful tell the impoverished to keep them from rising up?

Yes, life seems unfair, but after you die suffering from malnutrition or disease that I don’t worry about, god will make it all fair again. Oh and ps, poor and humble people are particularly loved by god! So you don’t want all my stuff. Got it?

What a long con. Thousands of years, still going strong.

[WinterHold]

Also, isn’t it obviously one of those lies the powerful tell the impoverished to keep them from rising up?

Yes, life seems unfair, but after you die suffering from malnutrition or disease that I don’t worry about, god will make it all fair again. Oh and ps, poor and humble people are particularly loved by god! So you don’t want all my stuff. Got it?

What a long con. Thousands of years, still going strong.

The only logical answer is that life is a test, and that hardships are mere trials, to write our worthiness of our ranks in that afterlife.
Which throws the "love" theory out of the window: that suffering is made by God, and he is the lord of everything including reward and suffering.

[Aroura]

Also, isn’t it obviously one of those lies the powerful tell the impoverished to keep them from rising up?

Yes, life seems unfair, but after you die suffering from malnutrition or disease that I don’t worry about, god will make it all fair again. Oh and ps, poor and humble people are particularly loved by god! So you don’t want all my stuff. Got it?

What a long con. Thousands of years, still going strong.

The only logical answer is that life is a test, and that hardships are mere trials, to write our worthiness of our ranks in that afterlife.
Which throws the "love" theory out of the window: that suffering is made by God, and he is the lord of everything including reward and suffering.

I asked this once, and almost every other religious person on this site said life is NOT a test.

If you think it is a test, then can you answer why some people seem to have easier tests than others?  Like, one person might have a pretty uneventful life, live to be 90, rests easy in his faith, healthy loving family etc.  And another guy has his whole family murdered in front of his eyes, or has his children die of starvation.  

Also, do infants and small children get the same test, even if they die very young?  Like is it a test for the 6 year old who died of a brain tumor?  Is that fair to the 6 year old, or to the person who had 90 years of testing?

[Aoi Magi]

Hmm, interesting thread...

To CL and Pool, why exactly is child rape wrong?

Well, here's my answer. It's a disordered act that goes against Natural Law, and there are several reasons for that: 

1. God created sex to be a sacred act of mutual self giving love between husband and wife. Rape takes sex completely outside of that context on many severe levels. It completely defiles something which is meant to be sacred.  

2. Every person has inherent value and inherent human rights. By forcing yourself on someone for your own gratification you are reducing them down to an object to be used by you, and in doing so, disregarding them as human beings with inherent value. Simultaneously you are taking away their inherent rights by using force and/or no consent.   

3. Children are the most vulnerable and weakest among us, and we have a moral responsibility to protect those who are weaker. By doing the exact opposite we are not only neglecting our moral duties, we are completely violating them.

0. How do you know there is a "natural law" against rape when the concept of rape itself seems to exist only among humans in a civilized society?

1. Umm, so do you believe a wife cannot be raped by her husband within the bounds of marriage?

2. What are these "inherent human rights", and why should violating them concern me in any way if I am the perpetrator?

3. Again, leaving aside social consequences, why should the perpetrator be concerned about neglecting or violating these "moral duties"?

[WinterHold]

The only logical answer is that life is a test, and that hardships are mere trials, to write our worthiness of our ranks in that afterlife.
Which throws the "love" theory out of the window: that suffering is made by God, and he is the lord of everything including reward and suffering.

I asked this once, and almost every other religious person on this site said life is NOT a test.

If you think it is a test, then can you answer why some people seem to have easier tests than others?  Like, one person might have a pretty uneventful life, live to be 90, rests easy in his faith, healthy loving family etc.  And another guy has his whole family murdered in front of his eyes, or has his children die of starvation.  

Also, do infants and small children get the same test, even if they die very young?  Like is it a test for the 6 year old who died of a brain tumor?  Is that fair to the 6 year old, or to the person who had 90 years of testing?

Easier conditions in life are not a blessing; they make the path to hell even easier.

Wealthy people tend to have luxuries more easily, and also tend to have sin more easily. If you think about it; it's so easy for me to abuse food and drugs and sex if my conditions were better by birth. A good looking person is also more prone to commit immoral acts, unlike a poor person who doesn't look that special.

Eventually; everybody is equal. Having it easy makes a person more prone to keep living a sinful life.

I doubt that infants are tested. They don't have proper full minds in my perspective. Their deaths are a reminder for the living to be thankful for the life they have.
I believe God is that controlling.

But I think and believe Islam state explicitly that it's a test:

Sura 67, The Quran:
( 2 )   [He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

It's even more hilarious when I see others saying things, and when criticized they begin to bash through privatizing their views which -ironically- they just made public for opinions !

That's not what I said, feel free to criticize MY views but that's not many people are doing, obviously there are different types of people within the christian belief, many people just look at the worst examples, like the vocal minority that are not representative of the moderate more general people of my belief and assigns their extreme beliefs as my own and asks me to defend them(???). It's happened to CL as well. If it was anybody else in my position they will respond with a "fuck you" to a strawman like that and if I did the exact same thing to someone else, as in look at the worst type of people of their "group" and equivocate them, then it would be trolling but it's fine if they do it to Christians(like myself), whatever, not cool though.

[Aroura]

Regardless of who has it easier, the point is that some people have easier than others.

And how come infants and small children get into heaven free without a test? So some people just get handed the reward, then. Others have to work their whole lives bed for it and have a chance at not getting it. How is that fair?
Since you believe this life is but a short test, and heaven is eternal, why aren’t you and others like you sending all the children to heaven before they can grow up and possibly fail the test? Sure, you would be damning your own soul, but saving many more!

Is it because you secretly fear your whole line of reasoning might be wrong? Otherwise, why are you gambling with countless immortal souls?

[WinterHold]

It's even more hilarious when I see others saying things, and when criticized they begin to bash through privatizing their views which -ironically- they just made public for opinions !

That's not what I said, feel free to criticize MY views but that's not many people are doing, obviously there are different types of people within the christian belief, many people just look at the worst examples, like the vocal minority that are not representative of the moderate more general people of my belief and assigns their extreme beliefs as my own and asks me to defend them(???). It's happened to CL as well. If it was anybody else in my position they will respond with a "fuck you" to a strawman like that and if I did the exact same thing to someone else, as in look at the worst type of people of their "group" and equivocate them, then it would be trolling but it's fine if they do it to Christians(like myself), whatever, not cool though.

That is victimizing.
It's not me who wrote this:

pool the matey Wrote:
Always fun when others tell me what I believe in 🙄

In other words you're saying: "shut up with your criticism to me; my faith my thoughts my property".
If you don't want to be criticized, what the hell are you doing in a discussion forum?

---

Regardless of who has it easier, the point is that some people have easier than others.

And how come infants and small children get into heaven free without a test? So some people just get handed the reward, then. Others have to work their whole lives bed for it and have a chance at not getting it. How is that fair?
Since you believe this life is but a short test, and heaven is eternal, why aren’t you and others like you sending all the children to heaven before they can grow up and possibly fail the test? Sure, you would be damning your own soul, but saving many more!

Is it because you secretly fear your whole line of reasoning might be wrong? Otherwise, why are you gambling with countless immortal souls?

I gave my belief about kid suffering:

I doubt that infants are tested. They don't have proper full minds in my perspective. Their deaths are a reminder for the living to be thankful for the life they have.
I believe God is that controlling.

I said it in a previous topic too about handicapped people; that their disability serves a purpose, and not just a waste of life, caused by a natural "error".

God can cause the death of kids. Humans don't have that right.

[chimp3]

Late to this thread. I see the believers are at it again with their wild imaginations. Religion is so derivative these days. Anything new next season or just re-runs?