How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

[Chad32]

Yes, a very small step up. still quite backwards by moral standards. So what's to keep us from claiming the whole book is allegorical then? Including the character of Jesus?

But if you want to talk about Jesus, then we can go with him telling slaves to obey even cruel masters, or telling people to hate their families. That he came not to bring peace, but a sword. The whole reason he told people to love their enemies, is because he thought the world was going to end in a generation or two. So forgive your enemies, sell all your belongings, and leave your families behind.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes, a very small step up. still quite backwards by moral standards. So what's to keep us from claiming the whole book is allegorical then? Including the character of Jesus?

I know some people here like to deny it, but there is evidence of Christ's existence and death by crucifixion under Punctius Pilot. The rapid spread of early Christianity, the men who were close friends with Jesus and died horrible deaths in His name, to me, are all testimony. So I believe the story of Jesus was real.

But if you want to talk about Jesus, then we can go with him telling slaves to obey even cruel masters, or telling people to hate their families. That he came not to bring peace, but a sword. The whole reason he told people to love their enemies, is because he thought the world was going to end in a generation or two. So forgive your enemies, sell all your belongings, and leave your families behind.

- Obedience to Master goes along with the teaching of turning the other cheeck. It can also be said that in that area/in those times, a "slave" was actually a servant who worked for the person to pay off a debt of sorts. It's long term work in exchange of something. We aren't talking about the people who get kidnapped from their land, sold as property, and forced to work.

-Where did Jesus tell people to hate their families? Please show me. Considering He told us to love our enemies, I highly doubt your assertion is true.

-As for the sword, remember what Jesus said to Peter when he had an actual sword with him and was about to strike a guard? He ordered Peter not to. He said "whoever lives by the sword will die from it." So clearly when Jesus says He "brought a sword," He was speaking figuratively. Many of the Jews of the time were angry and disappointed in Jesus specifically because they wanted Him to fight against the Romans with them, and He wouldn't.

-Where does Jesus say "love your enemy because the world will end in a generation or 2?" I have never heard that before. The teaching is about the virtues of humility, selflessness, and mercy. No talk about the world ending in a few years.

I really cant imagine a person reading the entirety of Jesus and His teachings, and coming away from it thinking Jesus was an immoral, bad person. I find it a bit dishonest, to be frank.

[Edwardo Piet]

So Jesus had no penis. Good to know.

Unless... wait a minute.... are you saying that Jesus is a pre-op transgender woman?

Yeah he did have one, it was just really small  

But if Jesus isn't a cisgender man or a pre-op transwoman, why would he have even a little penis?

Oh right, I geddit, you're being blasphemous. Carry on.

[Cod]

Yes, a very small step up. still quite backwards by moral standards. So what's to keep us from claiming the whole book is allegorical then? Including the character of Jesus?

I know some people here like to deny it, but there is evidence of Christ's existence and death by crucifixion under Punctius Pilot. The rapid spread of early Christianity, the men who were close friends with Jesus and died horrible deaths in His name, to me, are all testimony. So I believe the story of Jesus was real.  

But if you want to talk about Jesus, then we can go with him telling slaves to obey even cruel masters, or telling people to hate their families. That he came not to bring peace, but a sword. The whole reason he told people to love their enemies, is because he thought the world was going to end in a generation or two. So forgive your enemies, sell all your belongings, and leave your families behind.

- Obedience to Master goes along with the teaching of turning the other cheeck. It can also be said that in that area/in those times, a "slave" was actually a servant who worked for the person to pay off a debt of sorts. It's long term work in exchange of something. We aren't talking about the people who get kidnapped from their land, sold as property, and forced to work.  

-Where did Jesus tell people to hate their families? Please show me. Considering He told us to love our enemies, I highly doubt your assertion is true.  

-As for the sword, remember what Jesus said to Peter when he had an actual sword with him and was about to strike a guard? He ordered Peter not to. He said "whoever lives by the sword will die from it." So clearly when Jesus says He "brought a sword," He was speaking figuratively. Many of the Jews of the time were angry and disappointed in Jesus specifically because they wanted Him to fight against the Romans with them, and He wouldn't.

-Where does Jesus say "love your enemy because the world will end in a generation or 2?" I have never heard that before. The teaching is about the virtues of humility, selflessness, and mercy. No talk about the world ending in a few years.

I really cant imagine a person reading the entirety of Jesus and His teachings, and coming away from it thinking Jesus was an immoral, bad person. I find it a bit dishonest, to be frank.

Have you read it CL, I thought you to be a reasonable person. Jesus said a lot of questionable things, just remove yourself from Jesus is love for a moment
and look it up.

He made a whip as well, look that one up.

Cod loves you, God certainly doesn't.

[Chad32]

People die for stupid stuff all the time. Unless we want to argue that islam is true, because of suicide bombers. Jesus has some mixed messages regarding families. You can look that up yourself. He didn't explicitly say "give up everything you own and follow me because the world is about to end", but he did say that some people he were talking to would not taste death before "all these things come to pass".

Not to mention telling people that what goes into them can't defile them, and not to wash their hands. Because apparently he didn't know anything about germs and bacteria.

There are some parts that I agree with, but "be nice to people" was not his one and only message to Humanity. He was a mixed bag. Not as messed up as his father was, but not the paragon of virtue either.

I don't want to get into the whole debate about whether slavery back then meant only servitude or not, because it was done to death, but the fact is Jesus was ok with people being exceptionally cruel to those who served them. Instead of treating them with respect, as fellow Human beings.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not sure how you come away thinking "Jesus is ok with people being exceptionally cruel" to anyone, when He teaches that we should do good even to those who hate us.

[Succubus]

I know some people here like to deny it, but there is evidence of Christ's existence and death by crucifixion under Punctius Pilot. The rapid spread of early Christianity, the men who were close friends with Jesus and died horrible deaths in His name, to me, are all testimony. So I believe the story of Jesus was real.  


- Obedience to Master goes along with the teaching of turning the other cheeck. It can also be said that in that area/in those times, a "slave" was actually a servant who worked for the person to pay off a debt of sorts. It's long term work in exchange of something. We aren't talking about the people who get kidnapped from their land, sold as property, and forced to work.  

-Where did Jesus tell people to hate their families? Please show me. Considering He told us to love our enemies, I highly doubt your assertion is true.  

-As for the sword, remember what Jesus said to Peter when he had an actual sword with him and was about to strike a guard? He ordered Peter not to. He said "whoever lives by the sword will die from it." So clearly when Jesus says He "brought a sword," He was speaking figuratively. Many of the Jews of the time were angry and disappointed in Jesus specifically because they wanted Him to fight against the Romans with them, and He wouldn't.

-Where does Jesus say "love your enemy because the world will end in a generation or 2?" I have never heard that before. The teaching is about the virtues of humility, selflessness, and mercy. No talk about the world ending in a few years.

I really cant imagine a person reading the entirety of Jesus and His teachings, and coming away from it thinking Jesus was an immoral, bad person. I find it a bit dishonest, to be frank.

Have you read it CL, I thought you to be a reasonable person. Jesus said a lot of questionable things, just remove yourself from Jesus is love for a moment
and look it up.

He made a whip as well, look that one up.

Cod loves you, God certainly doesn't.

The bible means what it says. Except when it doesn’t. It's allegorical.

[Abaddon_ire]

I'm not sure how you come away thinking "Jesus is ok with people being exceptionally cruel" to anyone, when He teaches that we should do good to even those who hate us.

Are you speaking of the "Golden Rule"? Do you not realise that jesus plagiarised that from pre-existing laws such as the Hammurabi code, which itself plagiarised other traditions predating jesus by thousands of years? Jesus was simply regurgitating an ancient tradition that was prevalent in his own time. Hillel even espoused it long before jesus turned up. It had only been around for thousands of years before jesus was even born. How is that any sort of divine revelation?

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not sure how you come away thinking "Jesus is ok with people being exceptionally cruel" to anyone, when He teaches that we should do good to even those who hate us.

Are you speaking of the "Golden Rule"? Do you not realise that jesus plagiarised that from pre-existing laws such as the Hammurabi code, which itself plagiarised other traditions predating jesus by thousands of years? Jesus was simply regurgitating an ancient tradition that was prevalent in his own time. Hillel even espoused it long before jesus turned up. It had only been around for thousands of years before jesus was even born. How is that any sort of divine revelation?

I dont see how or why it makes a difference if Jesus was reiterating a moral standard that already existed. With that being said, I was referring to this line specifically:

"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."

[Cod]

I'm not sure how you come away thinking "Jesus is ok with people being exceptionally cruel" to anyone, when He teaches that we should do good even to those who hate us.

Hmmm, re-read Matthew, I think Jesus was really cruel to his family in that part of the spew testicle. I've been blanked by certain members of my family and it isn't nice.