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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:31 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 4:34 pm by Shell B.)
So, you have an unusual sex life and want to apply to the rest of everyone? Okey-dokey.
To be clear, I have a friend who is a nudist and has naked parties. It's always established beforehand that there will be nudity and cuddling or whatever. It's established. If you're not establishing that you're having these women over to get naked and watch TV, you're a fucking creep.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:34 pm
(January 17, 2018 at 4:12 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Another suggestion..and it's not aimed at anyone here, but referencing the bj sets a shitty precedent. Particularly that a rapist could then conceivably be aware that..if he somehow gets a girl to blow him in what people are willing to entertain as a "bad date gone wrong" he can then use that as a way to discredit the larger (and potentially more serious) allegation.
The consensus seems to be that withdrawing consent is not acceptable behavior.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:34 pm
(January 17, 2018 at 4:12 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Another suggestion..and it's not aimed at anyone here, but referencing the bj sets a shitty precedent. Particularly that a rapist could then conceivably be aware that..if he somehow gets a girl to blow him in what people are willing to entertain as a "bad date gone wrong" he can then use that as a way to discredit the larger (and potentially more serious) allegation.
What was the larger in this case? Sending her home in an Uber? Calling her essence?
The bj was referenced because is it relevant in this story. And I don't think if he raped her after, that anyone would say "it's not rape because of the bj" she's still allowed to decline sex after (which she did)
I get your point in that it's sort of an excuse that would go something like "she consented for oral sex therefore i could stick my hand in her mouth that requires less consent" or something along those lines.
But then it's just an endless loop, "we had sex but after, he spooned me and groped my breast which i didn't consent to, so I'm claiming sexual assault"
It needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis and logic needs to be used. Also just general reasoning. If a woman (or man) gives you oral sex it should be obvious that it doesn't mean you get to forcefully have sex with her (him)
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:34 pm
La la la la...... this discussion is making its fifth unnecessary circle.
Can't we all just acknowledge that we agree that based on the babe article Aziz was acting like a selfish fuck boy, but was not guilty of sexual assault? We all agree on that, right? Why are we arguing?
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:35 pm
(January 17, 2018 at 4:27 pm)Shell B Wrote: (January 17, 2018 at 4:19 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: You said it not me .
Oh, fuck off. That response implies that you think that is the case. "You said it" is a common response when you think someone has told the truth, but you don't want to outright say it as well because it's offensive. (Just in case you don't know that, because sometimes I wonder if English is your second language). As in, "I think I look fat in this dress." "You said it, not me." It's a shift of blame for the statement you believe is fact off you, so you can't be blamed for saying she's fat, even though you think it. Therefore, you actually think Tibs raped me because he didn't ask me if I wanted sex after I took my clothes off. That you think that makes you a non-starter in this debate. Your position is absurd.
I'd venture to guess that you haven't asked a woman if she wants sex every time she's gotten naked in front of you. Therefore, by your implied definition, you are a rapist. No it does not . It means you interpret my response as such . And you can guess but your guess would be wrong . I always ask . DO YOU WANT TO FUCK . it does not matter if she's nude or not .
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 4:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 17, 2018 at 4:31 pm)J a c k Wrote: (January 17, 2018 at 4:28 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: And the counterpoint being made is that a person has the right to change their mind about consent at any time. This is why nudity is not consent. It certainly is not a Rubicon. Thump, but she did change her mind, and when she finally made it clear, he didn’t force her. At least that’s what I’m understanding.
Which of the multiple instances of her objecting to further sexual advances..when you say the above..is the time she finally made it clear? That's the obvious question. When I read it, I see that she's saying that her concerns, both verbal and physical..-began- a long time before the event finally ended....particularly for what she thought was happening to her. The only way I can tell myself that doesn't sound like a common rape, is when I consider that her story may be false in important places...or as was suggested, that the story of who wrote her story is meaningfully false, in those same important places.
@SAS, not only was the entire encounter the "more serious issue"..Thump took the time to find a statute that provided a textbook definition of unwanted touching which was made explicit in her story. I don;t think her story is enough to convict..but it;s not really because I don't believe her.
and this.
Quote:It needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis and logic needs to be used. Also just general reasoning. If a woman (or man) gives you oral sex it should be obvious that it doesn't mean you get to forcefully have sex with her (him)
-does not appear to have been obvious, at all, to Aziz Ansari, rapist or not. It's pretty much the sexual mo of the story. He was convinced, he maintains..that it was all going well. Read that story again. Totally normal..to Aziz Ansari. He doesn;t seem to have been particularly concerned about whether or not her vocal objections - or pushing his hands away...effected the consent he thought he;d secured by prior bj..and even..allegedly, busts out the sleaze line "It doesn't look like you hate me" or some such bullshit - as a direct response to her clearly stated objection.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:40 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm by Cyberman.)
(January 17, 2018 at 2:06 pm)pool the matey Wrote: It's a good thing he got shamed. Discourages other creeps. Enough people get shamed and these things won't ever happen.
Trial by media is never a good thing to want. Trial by biased journalism even less so. Throughout all this discussion, we've only had one side of the story, one account of events.
Several years ago - and I swear I didn't remember this until just now - I almost faced allegations of rape. I've mentioned how Sam and I were trying for a baby. Well, not to brag or anything, but we tried very, very hard (and she could be far more hot-blooded than I ever was). Anyway, she happened to mention to A Certain Person how much we were trying, and ACP tried to characterise it as my raping her. Had this person, who obviously hadn't been present for any of those occasions, made the completely unwarranted allegations to the wrong people, I would without a doubt have my details on file now, just waiting to dog my life following my release.
So no, please put your suggestion where it will do the most good.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm by SaStrike.)
Quote:Tibs didn't. Guess he raped me.
There goes his admin career.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm
(January 17, 2018 at 4:31 pm)Shell B Wrote: So, you have an unusual sex life and want to apply to the rest of everyone? Okey-dokey.
To be clear, I have a friend who is a nudist and has naked parties. It's always established beforehand that there will be nudity and cuddling or whatever. It's established. If you're not establishing that you're having these women over to get naked and watch TV, you're a fucking creep.
Nope i'm simply pointing out the idea that nudity = the desire for sex is wrong. and trust me it's nowhere near as uncommon as you may think . But no i'm not imposing anything
Established that there will be nudity not always . Sometimes they want to keep their clothes on . In that instances i put mine back on too . And we just watch TV . Hell i even ask if their comfortable with the idea. And at any point they wish to undress then by all means .
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm
(January 17, 2018 at 4:31 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: What might she think of you when she tells you repeatedly that's she's uncomfortable, and you keep knockin' on the door?
That's not what happened:
Quote:“Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” she said. “I stopped moving my lips and turned cold.”
Whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say. “I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn’t interested. I don’t think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored.”
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