High school shooting in Parkland FL

[Shell B]

Just heard that the FBI admitted that they were informed about this kid on January 5th, with specific details including his desire to commit a school shooting. They did nothing admitting their protocols were not followed. 

Can't legislate against ball dropping.

We can punish those who ball drop severely enough that others will not drop the ball.

---

How you define common sense. Obviously, with good laws this joker wouldn't have been able to get his hands on a pistol.

Ideally, he wouldn't legally be able to get his hand on a pistol.  But I'm not sure what sort of profiling would be necessary, and even possible constitutionally speaking.

Well, given that he did get his hands on guns legally, if I have the right information, this isn't a question of stopping illegal gun trade. This was clearly a problem with existing law or application of law. The type of profiling that would be necessary is perfectly permissible under the constitution. We already put restrictions on gun ownership. We have precedence to do it where necessary. Now, the type of profiling appears to actually have been done in this case, which is sad. If a kid says he's going to shoot up a school, we take away his guns/rights to have them. /story If a kid says he's going to shoot up a school, we go to the parents' house and ensure that either A. they are complying with safe storage of their guns that keep them out of their kids' hands or B. we impose penalties if they do not.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Further legislation on access to firearms isn't going to (and isn't supposed to) stop murder or violent crime. Just lower the ease with which this type of violent crime can be committed and lower the rate at which they occur.  Definitely is not the ultimate solution for why kids want to kill all their classmates.

Of course not. I just get frustrated when sensible voices get drowned out.

I didn't mean to direct that second post at you. Forums feature to prevent double posting hooked them together.

No sweat, apologies for my misreading you.

---

I don't own a gun, and I'm not defending anything, so bite me.

If you're not defending guns, okay then.  Thanks for clarification.  However, those that present those types of sentiments tend to prefer to deflect the issue without providing any solutions.  They'll cry about mental health, they'll cry about video games, they'll cry about movies, anything to deflect from guns--when guns are definitely a part of the problem.  I'm so sick of hearing about these mass shootings.  My heart was SHATTERED when I heard about the Sandy Hook shootings.  Fuck, my heart was shattered when I heard about Columbine.  But Sandy Hook was an absolute breaking point.  These were little kids that got killed, little kids and their teachers.  Just going about their day.  Just like the people in Aurora, the people at the Pulse Night Club, and the people in Las Vegas.  It frustrates me to no end that we refuse to do fuck all about it.  And I'm sick of it.  We live in a country where you can't take a fucking water bottle on an airplane.  You can't possess a certain amount of a goddamn plant without being locked up in jail for life.  But these kids get killed... and our politicians do nothing more than send their fucking thoughts and prayers.  We have an entire organization dedicated to not just making sure that citizens can own guns, but to make sure there is ZERO burden on anyone wanting to buy any gun they want (unless it's a Smart gun, of course).  These kids are 14-15 years old.  Not even old enough to drive yet.  These are kids born after 9/11.  Kids who woke up, went to school, and expected to come home that day.  They probably had plans for the weekend.  Maybe even for Valentine's Day.  The presents they got from last Christmas are still pretty new.   They probably had dreams of going to college, making something of their life.  They had friends, parents, siblings.   Now their parents have to mourn their kids.  And honestly it isn't any better when it's adults being shot either.  Those are parents, teachers, friends, brothers, sisters... Kids aren't where I want to draw the line.  Kids are just past the line.  Way past acceptable.  I'm frustrated, and I'm tired, and I want us to fucking do something.  I'm tired of doing nothing.  Nothing isn't working.

Believe me -- I'm tired of this conversation, too. We're in complete agreement there. This conversation should not be happening in a civilized society, especially after so many recurrences.

I'd like to see mandatory smart guns -- if you're manufacturing guns, they must by law be biometrically keyed to the purchaser, who must pass criminal and mental-health background checks upon purchase, and at regular, stipulated intervals after that.

Coupled with that, I'd like to see a sunset law on dumb guns forbidding their transfer in any form -- gift, resale, or loaning -- except a government buyback upon the owner's death, whereupon it would be destroyed.

I think such a program would work to reduce not only the number of these incidents, but also work to counter our firearms death rate as a whole, because so many murders here arise from guns which don't belong to the shooter.

---

I skipped this one sorry. It's not about a cure for all , this is a topic about SHOOTINGS , the best way to reduce SHOOTINGS is to gave stricter gun laws. 
It's not my fault that you and more guys on this topic went off topic to human condition and violence , wich are things that are beeing taclked for a long long time but somehow you will solve the problem in a few days ,  but please teach me master.

If you'd like a decent discussion, you can shitcan the sarcasm, and strawmanning. Let me know when you're ready for that.

[Mister Agenda]

The needle has to be moved by the voters before 'reasonable gun laws' become an issue that the Dems and Reps can compromise on. It's a 3rd rail for Republicans right now, they can't touch it, and won't touch it as long as what they've been doing still works for them on election day. It's not even a reliable vote-winner for Democrats from Democrats, many of whom are gun owners themselves.

The most we can hope for is blue states improving their individual state's firearm legislation, it's a non-starter at the federal level right now.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If it's a right, then apply for Euthanasia. death by handgun, while the most efficient method of suicide around, isn't the cleanest.

No argument there.

I posted a link above about that alleged statistic.

woo hooo... 2 per week?... One per week, one per month, one per year... How many is too many?
If there's a rate at which this sort of thing happens, it's not ok, by my book.

Nowhere did I say any rate was okay. My point is that introducing exaggerated claims, or conflating accidents and suicides in with shooting, does nothing to advance the conversation.

---

The needle has to be moved by the voters before 'reasonable gun laws' become an issue that the Dems and Reps can compromise on. It's a 3rd rail for Republicans right now, they can't touch it, and won't touch it as long as what they've been doing still works for them on election day. It's not even a reliable vote-winner for Democrats from Democrats, many of whom are gun owners themselves.

The most we can hope for is blue states improving their individual state's firearm legislation, it's a non-starter at the federal level right now.

Sad but true.

[notimportant1234]

Further legislation on access to firearms isn't going to (and isn't supposed to) stop murder or violent crime. Just lower the ease with which this type of violent crime can be committed and lower the rate at which they occur.  Definitely is not the ultimate solution for why kids want to kill all their classmates.

Of course not. I just get frustrated when sensible voices get drowned out.

I didn't mean to direct that second post at you. Forums feature to prevent double posting hooked them together.

No sweat, apologies for my misreading you.

---

If you're not defending guns, okay then.  Thanks for clarification.  However, those that present those types of sentiments tend to prefer to deflect the issue without providing any solutions.  They'll cry about mental health, they'll cry about video games, they'll cry about movies, anything to deflect from guns--when guns are definitely a part of the problem.  I'm so sick of hearing about these mass shootings.  My heart was SHATTERED when I heard about the Sandy Hook shootings.  Fuck, my heart was shattered when I heard about Columbine.  But Sandy Hook was an absolute breaking point.  These were little kids that got killed, little kids and their teachers.  Just going about their day.  Just like the people in Aurora, the people at the Pulse Night Club, and the people in Las Vegas.  It frustrates me to no end that we refuse to do fuck all about it.  And I'm sick of it.  We live in a country where you can't take a fucking water bottle on an airplane.  You can't possess a certain amount of a goddamn plant without being locked up in jail for life.  But these kids get killed... and our politicians do nothing more than send their fucking thoughts and prayers.  We have an entire organization dedicated to not just making sure that citizens can own guns, but to make sure there is ZERO burden on anyone wanting to buy any gun they want (unless it's a Smart gun, of course).  These kids are 14-15 years old.  Not even old enough to drive yet.  These are kids born after 9/11.  Kids who woke up, went to school, and expected to come home that day.  They probably had plans for the weekend.  Maybe even for Valentine's Day.  The presents they got from last Christmas are still pretty new.   They probably had dreams of going to college, making something of their life.  They had friends, parents, siblings.   Now their parents have to mourn their kids.  And honestly it isn't any better when it's adults being shot either.  Those are parents, teachers, friends, brothers, sisters... Kids aren't where I want to draw the line.  Kids are just past the line.  Way past acceptable.  I'm frustrated, and I'm tired, and I want us to fucking do something.  I'm tired of doing nothing.  Nothing isn't working.

Believe me -- I'm tired of this conversation, too. We're in complete agreement there. This conversation should not be happening in a civilized society, especially after so many recurrences.

I'd like to see mandatory smart guns -- if you're manufacturing guns, they must by law be biometrically keyed to the purchaser, who must pass criminal and mental-health background checks upon purchase, and at regular, stipulated intervals after that.

Coupled with that, I'd like to see a sunset law on dumb guns forbidding their transfer in any form -- gift, resale, or loaning -- except a government buyback upon the owner's death, whereupon it would be destroyed.

I think such a program would work to reduce not only the number of these incidents, but also work to counter our firearms death rate as a whole, because so many murders here arise from guns which don't belong to the shooter.

---

I skipped this one sorry. It's not about a cure for all , this is a topic about SHOOTINGS , the best way to reduce SHOOTINGS is to gave stricter gun laws. 
It's not my fault that you and more guys on this topic went off topic to human condition and violence , wich are things that are beeing taclked for a long long time but somehow you will solve the problem in a few days ,  but please teach me master.

If you'd like a decent discussion, you can shitcan the sarcasm, and strawmanning. Let me know when you're ready for that.

Strawmanning you how? You strawmanned me by saying that I proposed stricter laws as the ultimate solution wich I didn't, I just proposed to work with the laws because it is the fastest thing you can change but I didn't say to not work on the other variables, you just assumed that.

[downbeatplumb]

More dead kids, but guns aren't the fucking problem.

Seriously, let the fuckers have all the guns they want.

Just tax the ammo and accessories so heavily that they can't afford to much.

Get rid of the computer shooting games and movies that glorify violence and criminals. There's tons of naive kids who are easily influenced by that shit and then fantasize about acting on it.

We have the same films and games over here but do not have the mass killings. The difference is you let people have guns.

[notimportant1234]

How you define common sense. Obviously, with good laws this joker wouldn't have been able to get his hands on a pistol.

Ideally, he wouldn't legally be able to get his hand on a pistol.  But I'm not sure what sort of profiling would be necessary, and even possible constitutionally speaking.

---

Depends , I don't care for the numbers , from my point of view it should be hard to get a handgun , but seriously a kid  bought a semi automatic rifle and went ape shit in a school , wtf ?

Do you care that it was a semi-automatic rifle, and not a handgun?  That's where I think gun control advocates come off a bit wonky.  Because nobody believes that him killing 8 people with a handgun would be any more acceptable than killing 14 with an AR-15.   It's a bit of mitigation, but it doesn't really solve the problem in any way.

The point that a semi-automatic rifle is deadlier than a hand gun, that is a fact.

[Shell B]

Ideally, he wouldn't legally be able to get his hand on a pistol.  But I'm not sure what sort of profiling would be necessary, and even possible constitutionally speaking.

---

Do you care that it was a semi-automatic rifle, and not a handgun?  That's where I think gun control advocates come off a bit wonky.  Because nobody believes that him killing 8 people with a handgun would be any more acceptable than killing 14 with an AR-15.   It's a bit of mitigation, but it doesn't really solve the problem in any way.

The point that a semi-automatic rifle is deadlier than a hand gun, that is a fact.

Depends on the range and accuracy of the shooter. Most pistols are semi-automatic, so you can fire off the same number of shots in the same amount of time if you have a bunch of loaded magazines handy. You can be accurate at say 25-30 feet with a little bit of practice. You don't need more than that in a school. If we're going to restrict access to guns to people who are likely to commit school shootings, the type of gun is irrelevant. The only reason there aren't more dead kids in these situation is that they're likely running around a lot, and these shooters have shit aim. (Thank fuck)

[henryp]

Ideally, he wouldn't legally be able to get his hand on a pistol.  But I'm not sure what sort of profiling would be necessary, and even possible constitutionally speaking.

Well, given that he did get his hands on guns legally, if I have the right information, this isn't a question of stopping illegal gun trade. This was clearly a problem with existing law or application of law. The type of profiling that would be necessary is perfectly permissible under the constitution. We already put restrictions on gun ownership. We have precedence to do it where necessary. Now, the type of profiling appears to actually have been done in this case, which is sad. If a kid says he's going to shoot up a school, we take away his guns/rights to have them. /story If a kid says he's going to shoot up a school, we go to the parents' house and ensure that either A. they are complying with safe storage of their guns that keep them out of their kids' hands or B. we impose penalties if they do not.

It's a fair idea.  The practicality of investigating every threat made on the internet is where I think things go awry.  But when the next guy doesn't threaten to kill kids on the internet, we'll need a new plan for him.  

And what seems inevitable, is that the rules are going to end up disproportionately disarming poor people and minorities.  Maybe that's okay theoretically, but I'd be surprised if it goes over well in any other way.

[Shell B]

Well, given that he did get his hands on guns legally, if I have the right information, this isn't a question of stopping illegal gun trade. This was clearly a problem with existing law or application of law. The type of profiling that would be necessary is perfectly permissible under the constitution. We already put restrictions on gun ownership. We have precedence to do it where necessary. Now, the type of profiling appears to actually have been done in this case, which is sad. If a kid says he's going to shoot up a school, we take away his guns/rights to have them. /story If a kid says he's going to shoot up a school, we go to the parents' house and ensure that either A. they are complying with safe storage of their guns that keep them out of their kids' hands or B. we impose penalties if they do not.

It's a fair idea.  The practicality of investigating every threat made on the internet is where I think things go awry.  But when the next guy doesn't threaten to kill kids on the internet, we'll need a new plan for him.  

And what seems inevitable, is that the rules are going to end up disproportionately disarming poor people and minorities.  Maybe that's okay theoretically, but I'd be surprised if it goes over well in any other way.

Having plans for different situations is fine by me.

I'm not sure that's true. Affluent white kids are pretty trigger happy. I can't even think of a single minority school shooter.