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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:12 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2018 at 8:14 am by robvalue.)
Who cares if she saw the light? It's still a light.
"Supernatural" is a meaningless drivel word. Anyone's opinion of what is and isn't "supernatural" is absolutely irrelevant until it's properly defined and then shown to be something real. This has never happened.
It's again just someone saying, "I don't know how to explain what I'm seeing". There's no further conclusion to be drawn. It can be a starting point for investigation, if there ever proves to be something to investigate. No one (sane) has ever claimed that our current models of reality are perfect.
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:38 am
(March 9, 2018 at 8:12 am)robvalue Wrote: "Supernatural" is a meaningless drivel word.
Pfft, it means Sam and Dean.
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:45 am
(March 9, 2018 at 7:53 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I believe person that examined the negative used the term 'supernatural' im reference to the light, seeing how there was no explanation for the light being there...
Then you'd have to dismiss eyewitness testimony of a woman who says she saw a hovering light.
Light is not supernatural. It has many perfectly natural causes.
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:48 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2018 at 8:51 am by Huggy Bear.)
(March 9, 2018 at 8:12 am)robvalue Wrote: Who cares if she saw the light? It's still a light.
"Supernatural" is a meaningless drivel word. Anyone's opinion of what is and isn't "supernatural" is absolutely irrelevant until it's properly defined and then shown to be something real. This has never happened.
It's again just someone saying, "I don't know how to explain what I'm seeing". There's no further conclusion to be drawn. It can be a starting point for investigation, if there ever proves to be something to investigate. No one (sane) has ever claimed that our current models of reality are perfect. *emphasis mine*
Supernatural is a real word with a real definition.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...pernatural
Quote:supernatural
1 (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Are you claiming that the supernatural can't exist because everything there is to know is known?
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:50 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2018 at 8:52 am by The Grand Nudger.)
It's as if someone with a time machine gained access to the internet from the turn of the century...and presents the compelling case of fairy photography as evidence of the supernatural.....
Will you be tapping on tables next, or showing us a jar of fluorescent ectoplasm?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:53 am
(March 9, 2018 at 7:53 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I believe person that examined the negative used the term 'supernatural' im reference to the light, seeing how there was no explanation for the light being there...
If there's no explanation, then there's no explanation. Full stop. It's a logical contradiction to say there's no explanation, while simultaneously declaring the supernatural as an explanation.
But we do have an explanation anyway (Min did a great job of providing it). You just don't want the explanation to be true for understandable psychological reasons.
Quote:Then you'd have to dismiss eyewitness testimony of a woman who says she saw a hovering light.
There we go again with eyewitness testimony. As if eyewitness testimonies don't have a history of being unreliable, and as if studies have not at all shown that to be the case.
And suppose a woman did see a hovering light. So what? What's so supernatural about hovering light when I can just turn on a flashlight in a dark room and hover its light with ease?
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:55 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2018 at 9:15 am by I_am_not_mafia.)
(March 8, 2018 at 5:27 pm)SteveII Wrote: (March 8, 2018 at 10:49 am)Mathilda Wrote: Every example we have of natural intelligence is a self-organising system that functions because of the laws of thermodynamics. Every example we have of natural intelligence is embodied in a physical environment which can be sensed and acted within. We have good reason to believe that every form of natural intelligence can ultimately be explained in terms of thermodynamics.
If you want to assert that natural intelligence exists in any other form (i.e. not AI) then give an example, evidence and at the very least a hypothesis on how it might function.
So if your god is intelligent (i.e. a being) then all the evidence is that it must also be subject to the laws of thermodynamics and therefore not eternal.
Give me one single example of intelligence that is not subject to the laws of thermodynamics.
Supernatural intelligence.
By definition, it is not subject to natural laws.
su·per·nat·u·ral
ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective
- 1.
(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
God, by definition, is supernatural.
You are assuming that your god exists. There is no evidence to warrant that assumption being made.
Provide one example of something existing that is also supernatural.
And if you are defining supernatural as beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature then that means quantum mechanics is supernatural, also dark matter, dark energy, dark flow etc.
But if you define supernatural and as not existing in nature, then you have defined it as something that does not exist. You are effectively admitting that your god is a fantasy and a figment of your imagination.
(March 9, 2018 at 8:48 am)Huggy74 Wrote: *emphasis mine*
Supernatural is a real word with a real definition.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...pernatural
Quote:supernatural
1 (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Are you claiming that the supernatural can't exist because everything there is to know is known?
Typical theist tactic of trying to limit the range of contrary options to only those that are absurd.
Third option you didn't raise is that the very term supernatural is meaningless.
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:58 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2018 at 8:59 am by Succubus.)
(March 9, 2018 at 8:48 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Supernatural is a real word with a real definition.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...pernatural
Quote:supernatural
1 (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Are you claiming that the supernatural can't exist because everything there is to know is known?
Jabberwock
noun
- (A dreaded monster) with flaming eyes.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 8:59 am
(March 9, 2018 at 8:45 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: (March 9, 2018 at 7:53 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I believe person that examined the negative used the term 'supernatural' im reference to the light, seeing how there was no explanation for the light being there...
Then you'd have to dismiss eyewitness testimony of a woman who says she saw a hovering light.
Light is not supernatural. It has many perfectly natural causes.
The issue is not the light, it's the behavior of the light.
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RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 9, 2018 at 9:00 am
(March 9, 2018 at 8:48 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Supernatural is a real word with a real definition.
So is bootylicious.
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