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Atheists same as religious extremists
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H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Deism is weak theism to me. They're more atheist than theist > look at the examples on this site. Their reason to believe to me is akin to the non reasoning some xtians come up with. They embrace the gap. Maybe I get them wrong > awaiting information to the contrary.
Fear certainly isn't the reason of any Xtian I know frankiej. RE: Atheists same as religious extremists
September 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2011 at 4:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So positions that disagree with yours are either weak or strong, both being negative assessments. Is this arrogant? (considering the material) Is there a simple way for you to express why you feel that your position is the middle ground on the god issue?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Then what real reason do you have?
Cunt
RE: Atheists same as religious extremists
September 1, 2011 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2011 at 4:23 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I had always felt that it went something like
<--Antitheist--Atheist--Agnostic--Deist--Theist--> (Also known as the "No god fuck you, probably not, you people are all assholes, some god {but not that guy's}, I know just which fucking god" scale)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: Atheists same as religious extremists
September 1, 2011 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2011 at 4:34 pm by fr0d0.)
(September 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So positions that disagree with yours are either weak or strong, both being negative assessments. Is this arrogant? (considering the material) Is there a simple way for you to express why you feel that your position is the middle ground on the god issue?Well both positions I see as illogical, using the definition I assume (for both theism and atheism): strong = (dis)belief beyond reason; weak = no reason. Rational people have to adopt the middle position for both atheism and theism IMO. If not their positions are indefensible I like your scale. The middle man is the noncognitivist. (September 1, 2011 at 4:19 pm)frankiej Wrote: Then what real reason do you have?I said it here
Simply saying it on faith is what I see as a cop out... If I had faith in Gandalf being real, I would like think that I would have a reason for having such faith.
Cunt
RE: Atheists same as religious extremists
September 1, 2011 at 4:43 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2011 at 4:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So the modified scale, based on our little convo here, would be something like
Frodo----------Everyone else-----> Truth----------Varying levels of untruth---------> That about right? I understand this may not be what you're trying to say. If it isn't, you're doing a great impression of it. I still can't see your position being the middle ground, honestly. You've given god a name, a face. Desires and will. That's some pretty strong theism (by anyone's definition other than your own obviously).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
That's rather an extreme oversimplification Frankiej. It's not blind faith... it's faith from reason.
You and I can only stick with what we reason to be correct Rhythm. Rhythm-----------Everyone Else-----> Truth--------------Varying levels of untruth-------> I don't claim truth, I search for it. I could be wrong. My best endeavour is the conclusion I hold. None of us can do better that that surely? I don't say you're wrong. I say I don't understand your position, but do my own. Neither of us has the right to call the other incorrect. Both of us justify our own positions. Strong & weak dwell either side of that... they're not so sure where they are/ they're over confident in where they are. For any of those positions, I expect the position to hold all other positions with less validity than their own position. ie they don't have the same definitions for strong/ weak etc. I can accept your definition of myself as strong theist, using your qualifiers. RE: Atheists same as religious extremists
September 1, 2011 at 5:26 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2011 at 5:32 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm not sure they're my qualifiers so much as THE qualifiers Frodo. Assuming that neither has a right to call the other incorrect is equivalent to assuming that nothing can be known. Is knowledge impossible only in this area, or others? If knowledge is impossible...what exactly are we talking about when we talk about your "reasons" to believe? I'm sorry, but it has always seemed to me that "nothing can be known" is the last ditch to defend an idea that the claimant holds dear but cannot be proven. "No Jesus no history!"..."No god, no creation". What does it explain? Nothing. What does it undermine? Everything. We very much seem to be dealing with a situation where one thing gets a certain set of rules, and another gets a completely different and more favorable set of rules. They have a term for that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
I'm just saying that your definitions there weren't mine. I don't mind using yours.
There is knowledge, and we adopt our position on that knowledge. The subject is a choice. All choices you make have varying levels of support intellectually. For whatever reason, you choose one thing over another. Should I scratch my nose/ Should I go take a wizz; should I take the white or dark chocolate. Knowledge isn't imposiible. Knowledge is personal. What you conclude is your best effort. Some things are easily proven one way or another: Most of us agree that Hitler did bad stuff. A few 'strong conspiracists' may think differently. Some things we're split 50/50 on. Those percentages change over time. |
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