Theists - I want to know what you think

[Mister Agenda]

To you, but you're widely known to be uncharitable towards atheists, so I could not give less of a shit about your opinion on the matter.

I vocally oppose atheism without invalidating the humanity atheists.

That's not what your posting history indicates, in my opinion.

This is a good example of what I'm talking about. Many atheists, particularly those who are also skeptics, are cautious about what claims they make. They don't say what you want them to say, which apparently grinds your gears to no end, and you have repeatedly impugned our integrity and motives for taking the 'lack of belief' position. It's a topic you never seem to get tired of whinging about, and every time it amounts to questioning the sincerity of the atheists you're talking to, not some abstract 'atheism'. And that's all it accomplishes: being insulting.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I vocally oppose atheism without invalidating the humanity atheists.

That's not what your posting history indicates, in my opinion.

...you have repeatedly impugned our integrity and motives for taking the 'lack of belief' position. It's a topic you never seem to get tired of whinging about, and every time it amounts to questioning the sincerity of the atheists you're talking to, not some abstract 'atheism'. And that's all it accomplishes: being insulting.

In those instances, I am not disrespecting you; I just simply lack respect for you. :-)

(Now if that were not a joke and I kept repeating it while insisting that lack of respect wasn't the same as disrespect would you not seriously doubt my sincerity?)

[Mister Agenda]

That's not what your posting history indicates, in my opinion.

...you have repeatedly impugned our integrity and motives for taking the 'lack of belief' position. It's a topic you never seem to get tired of whinging about, and every time it amounts to questioning the sincerity of the atheists you're talking to, not some abstract 'atheism'. And that's all it accomplishes: being insulting.

In those instances, I am not disrespecting you; I just simply lack respect for you. :-)

(Now if that were not a joke and I kept repeating it while insisting that lack of respect wasn't the same as disrespect would you not seriously doubt my sincerity?)

Touche'

I would not doubt that you sincerely lack respect for me. It's the unasked for repetition that would indicate you are going out of your way to jab me, and that would make me question your sincerity. It's not really analogous though is it, my lack of belief being impersonal, and your lack of respect adding up to disrespect through repetition? When I bring up lack of belief it's to clarify the position. Somehow I don't think that's why you would repeatedly bring up your lack of respect for me.

[Neo-Scholastic]

And just to be clear, that is only an example. I do in fact respect you.

[Mister Agenda]

I took the first part as a joke. Though I can be testy, I try to keep my sense of humor, and that was a good one.

[Godscreated]

@ Mister Agenda, how many time has your conversation with Neo in the last few posts been exactly what every Christian here has said to atheist. We all can blame each other for saying this or that and claim we do not disrespect the person but in reality everyone knows that at times nearly everyone here has lost their respect for someone on the opposite side. We all should just fess-up and tell it like it is and quit beating around the bush. Tensions can run high here because there are extreme opposites in opinion and everyone wants to be right and things get said, rightfully or not they hurt and anyone who denies they haven't been hurt in a conversation IMHO are not being truthful. Most Christians here want civil conversation and we try to do so because it is our nature through our belief in God and the atheist doesn't really see that they need to be civil because they believe they have no one to answer to, please do not misunderstand there are atheist here who will be civil to some Christians and some who try to be civil to everyone, atheist and Christian alike, I have two specific ones in mind but want say who so that no one gets their feelings hurt, okay. I've always wanted to have civil conversation with everyone here but at some point things break down and the trash starts. I've l have left here three times to regroup and refresh because I've found myself lowering my standard to a combative stance and it has bothered me because I know it's not who God wants me to be. Bantering back and forth about who did what to whom is no solution, it only contributes to continued battling, we are for the most part adults here and we should stop being children and have conversation in an adult like way, civil. Many atheist say that Christians here are only following goat herders, which is a reference to the crude and uneducated, yet they act like what they claim we are, this is no way to treat people no matter how much they disagree with what we believe. So I am saying to everyone let's get along as fellow human beings and not a bunch of squabbling apes. I believe this has been a good group of Christians and if we were to leave then what would you all do. I can tell you from the behavior you have demonstrated, fight and quarrel. This is exactly why I will not participate in Christian forums, there is no place for that kind of behavior in a forum where they profess a belief in the living God. Almost all Christian forums will jack atheist out so they do not have to deal with their questions and then that leaves them to themselves and then inevitably bad behavior breaks out, it would be no different here. 

GC

[Neo-Scholastic]

Most Christians here want civil conversation and we try to do so because it is our nature through our belief in God and the atheist doesn't really see that they need to be civil because they believe they have no one to answer to…

…in the same way Christians get called hypocrites because they often fail to represent Christ by those who adhere to personal standards based only on their subjective whims.

Many atheist say that Christians here are only following goat herders, which is a reference to the crude and uneducated, yet they act like what they claim we are, this is no way to treat people no matter how much they disagree with what we believe.

Far too many atheists repeatedly refer to our most deeply held convictions and sacred beliefs with comments about “goat herders”, “sky daddy”, “tooth fairy”, “cosmic zombie Jew”, and the like. They justify it by saying that they are not calling ridiculing us personally or Christians or as a whole. They claim they are merely mocking ridiculous ideas and beliefs. It reminds me of a smart-ass dweeb pointing his finger inches from your face and shouting “I’m not touching you!”, “I’m not touching you!”

[The Grand Nudger]

Find some people you consider good Christians (not me apparently) and ask them for their personal testimony. Apologetics are all fine and good, but the most compelling argument for the Christian faith is how it changes the lives those who embrace it.

I'm surrounded by high caliber christians.  I sleep in bed with one, lol.  I don;t see how that is supposed to lead me to believe what they believe, though?

There are alot of good people in the world who believe alot of things.  Some of those things are mutually exclusive.  If seeing decent people and the effect of their beliefs on their life are meant to lend credibility to the contents of those beliefs we'd still be at an impasse.  Essentially, trading one problem for another and getting no closer to terminus in the process....with no requirement of their specific beliefs involved established by the simple fact of them holding disparate beliefs and achieving the same effects. I achieve those effects, as well...with no god beliefs.

I;ve always thought that a personal experience would be the most compelling, myself. This is what established the comfortable peace between my father in law and I, for example. He once asked me what it would take for me to believe in gods. I told him it would take exactly the experience that many christians describe but that I haven't yet been a party too. It;s easy to understand why they believe what they believe..right -or- wrong, and I;m not different from them in any way relevant to how compelling a personal experience would be.

Unfortunately, I don;t think that experience is communicable (for whatever reason). It gets lost in translation. Hearing about the big fish that got away and catching one are different, in any case.

As far as your frustrations..maybe you should internalize less and let god be angry for himself more? You might even start to come off like a high caliber christian for a change.

[Mister Agenda]

@ Mister Agenda, how many time has your conversation with Neo in the last few posts been exactly what every Christian here has said to atheist. We all can blame each other for saying this or that and claim we do not disrespect the person but in reality everyone knows that at times nearly everyone here has lost their respect for someone on the opposite side. We all should just fess-up and tell it like it is and quit beating around the bush. Tensions can run high here because there are extreme opposites in opinion and everyone wants to be right and things get said, rightfully or not they hurt and anyone who denies they haven't been hurt in a conversation IMHO are not being truthful. Most Christians here want civil conversation and we try to do so because it is our nature through our belief in God and the atheist doesn't really see that they need to be civil because they believe they have no one to answer to, please do not misunderstand there are atheist here who will be civil to some Christians and some who try to be civil to everyone, atheist and Christian alike, I have two specific ones in mind but want say who so that no one gets their feelings hurt, okay. I've always wanted to have civil conversation with everyone here but at some point things break down and the trash starts. I've l have left here three times to regroup and refresh because I've found myself lowering my standard to a combative stance and it has bothered me because I know it's not who God wants me to be. Bantering back and forth about who did what to whom is no solution, it only contributes to continued battling, we are for the most part adults here and we should stop being children and have conversation in an adult like way, civil. Many atheist say that Christians here are only following goat herders, which is a reference to the crude and uneducated, yet they act like what they claim we are, this is no way to treat people no matter how much they disagree with what we believe. So I am saying to everyone let's get along as fellow human beings and not a bunch of squabbling apes. I believe this has been a good group of Christians and if we were to leave then what would you all do. I can tell you from the behavior you have demonstrated, fight and quarrel. This is exactly why I will not participate in Christian forums, there is no place for that kind of behavior in a forum where they profess a belief in the living God. Almost all Christian forums will jack atheist out so they do not have to deal with their questions and then that leaves them to themselves and then inevitably bad behavior breaks out, it would be no different here. 

GC

What I'm hearing is that I shouldn't expect better from Christians than I do from atheists. I agree with you on that point.

---

Most Christians here want civil conversation and we try to do so because it is our nature through our belief in God and the atheist doesn't really see that they need to be civil because they believe they have no one to answer to…

…in the same way Christians get called hypocrites because they often fail to represent Christ by those who adhere to personal standards based only on their subjective whims.

Many atheist say that Christians here are only following goat herders, which is a reference to the crude and uneducated, yet they act like what they claim we are, this is no way to treat people no matter how much they disagree with what we believe.

Far too many atheists repeatedly refer to our most deeply held convictions and sacred beliefs with comments about “goat herders”, “sky daddy”, “tooth fairy”, “cosmic zombie Jew”, and the like. They justify it by saying that they are not calling ridiculing us personally or Christians or as a whole. They claim they are merely mocking ridiculous ideas and beliefs. It reminds me of a smart-ass dweeb pointing his finger inches from your face and shouting “I’m not touching you!”, “I’m not touching you!”

Because a moral philosophy that isn't yours is a 'subjective whim'.

You've a point about the childish terms.

[Neo-Scholastic]

As far as your frustrations..maybe you should internalize less and let god be angry for himself more?  

Good advice.