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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 10:56 am
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2018 at 10:58 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Reductio has that effect when the thing being tackled is a cherished belief. Just a guess, but I think it goes something like this;
-That's absurd!
-God isn't absurd
-Therefore my arguments are not equally absurd
-Therefore it's straw.
or, conversely.
-That's absurd!
-God isn't absurd
-Therefore there must be some difference in the arguments form
-Therefore it's straw.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:02 am
As a rule, a belief is usually delusional when it doesn't align with reality. So it depends on how concerned the religious person is with their religious convictions being realistic. To me, if you think god helped you find your keys while there are children being raped and killed all over the world (or name any other atrocity, natural tragedy, war, etc.) then you are delusional. If you think a virgin gave birth to a child, you're delusional. If you think the Earth is 6,000 years old, you're delusional.
How much more time you got?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:07 am
The witness to all those witnessed is a sure fact, just get over yourselves and accept.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2018 at 11:11 am by robvalue.)
I guess you could compare and contrast different types of beliefs.
The kind of theist who mostly accepts mainstream science, but just shoehorns in "but God did it", isn't operating under a delusion as such. It's just forcing a conclusion which probably won't affect them much.
The kind of theist who prefers their literal stories to mainstream science is pretty delusional, I would say. They're living in a borderline fantasy land version of reality. This still might not impact them too much in everyday life, although I find it hard to believe that this kind of thinking won't have some knock-on effects.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:23 am
(September 1, 2018 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: The witness to all those witnessed is a sure fact, just get over yourselves and accept.
LOL... And to those who believe they have been anally fisted by little green men from space - alien abduction is "a sure fact". It's still a delusion. 
You know, maybe if gods and space aliens chose their witnesses better - and not exclusively from the pool of nut-jobs, pathological liars, simpletons and drunks - the belief in their existence wouldn't seem quite so removed from reality...
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:27 am
(September 1, 2018 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: The witness to all those witnessed is a sure fact, just get over yourselves and accept.
The objection of all those rejecting the credibility of those witnesses is sure enough a natural fact. Check mate, Mr Derp.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:28 am
Quote:The witness to all those witnessed is a sure fact, just get over yourselves and accept.
witnessing something something does not prove what you believe about it .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 11:30 am
(September 1, 2018 at 11:10 am)robvalue Wrote: I guess you could compare and contrast different types of beliefs.
The kind of theist who mostly accepts mainstream science, but just shoehorns in "but God did it", isn't operating under a delusion as such. It's just forcing a conclusion which probably won't affect them much.
The kind of theist who prefers their literal stories to mainstream science is pretty delusional, I would say. They're living in a borderline fantasy land version of reality. This still might not impact them too much in everyday life, although I find it hard to believe that this kind of thinking won't have some knock-on effects.
I agree. Literalists continually reject the real in favor of their cherished fantasy. That does seem outright delusional to me too.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 12:22 pm
(September 1, 2018 at 11:10 am)robvalue Wrote: I guess you could compare and contrast different types of beliefs.
The kind of theist who mostly accepts mainstream science, but just shoehorns in "but God did it", isn't operating under a delusion as such. It's just forcing a conclusion which probably won't affect them much.
The kind of theist who prefers their literal stories to mainstream science is pretty delusional, I would say. They're living in a borderline fantasy land version of reality. This still might not impact them too much in everyday life, although I find it hard to believe that this kind of thinking won't have some knock-on effects.
And lets see, how many is that? What percentage of people deny evolution and/or Global warming in favor of their fairy tale? 30%, 40%? More? How many people watch Trump lie and then say deny it with him? About the same percentage, I think.
Teaching people to value ANY kind of delusion (or whatever you want to call it) certainly seems to make them more prone to fall for other, possibly far more dangerous, delusions.
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RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
September 1, 2018 at 12:33 pm
(September 1, 2018 at 11:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: The witness to all those witnessed is a sure fact, just get over yourselves and accept.
All these witnesses are delusional is even more sure a fact, get over your Koran and accept.
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