Hello, New atheist having a meltdown

[brewer]

Khemikal,

Thanks for sharing your story. It does help to read your story and realize that grieving is still gut-wrenching for people of all faiths.

In my parents' church, the verse, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope," is stressed a lot around the time of death. I remember a couple of children whose parent had died, and they didn't even cry for days, if not ever. Even my mom said that it wasn't normal or healthy not to cry or grieve. When my atheist boyfriend's stepfather recently was dying, my mom said that she hoped he had God because otherwise she didn't know how a person could get through a thing like death. At their church funerals, there's a lot of preaching about the hope they have after death. Their website emphasizes not grieving "as those who don't have hope" and that the grief process is much easier to get through than if you don't have God. It never felt normal to me to hear singing about that glorious day that someone "went home to be with the Lord."

bold mine

This sounds a lot like seventh day adventists. If I'm right, it's no wonder why this is so tough on you.

I've read the rest of your posts and have a suggestion. You might try another psychologist (screened to weed out a theist) or even a psychiatrist. Maybe I'm giving your talk of depression/OCD/anxiety/intrusive thoughts to much weight, but if not, it might be worth a try (again).  

And in the long run, if it turns out you need a god (you get to make your own definition) in your life to be happy, then I'd rather you be happy. There is no sense ruining your life or being miserable over a philosophy or position. I'm awash in a sea of content/happy christians.

[robvalue]

I'm very sorry to hear you suffer from anxiety and depression. These are things I know a lot about. I have been depressed for large portions of my life, including being close to suicidal for the last 10 years. My anxiety is sometimes so crippling that I can barely move or function. You have my deepest sympathy.

I've somehow managed to keep on fighting, while resisting the urge to succumb to drink or drugs, which would be my equivalent of a religious effect. I haven't killed myself, despite wanting to every day, by focusing on reasons not to, in my case my wife and pets.

I'm not suggesting you are suicidal and I certainly hope you're not, I just wanted to give an impression from someone who has managed without religion with similar problems. I can totally understand that religion has left a hole in your life, and that the natural reaction is to clamour for something to replace it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Khemikal,

I've read your post over several times, and it makes sense. There are more coping mechanisms at play than just the God illusion. I think perhaps I've rushed into things so quickly that I haven't had time to adapt emotionally. I have OCD with a strongly obsessional quality rather than compulsive. That tends to lead to obsessing over even the great mysteries and needing to have answers to everything *right now* (!). It's not healthy. I think I need to pull back, read more posts, and ease into my unbelief rather than trying to give it a label right now. Someone elsewhere described that as going from one addiction to another. Not sure how accurate of a description that is, but this is a process, so why not take some time with it rather than expect change overnight? Tonight I'm going to have some herbal medicine and take it easy rather than obsessing about all of this. Thanks again for your posts. They've helped a lot.

Yet another service we provide. 

Thanks for taking the time to read it all.  Most of the time I just phone it in, I hope all my future dick jokes stick the landing just as well!

[Fireball]

Khemikal,

I've read your post over several times, and it makes sense. There are more coping mechanisms at play than just the God illusion. I think perhaps I've rushed into things so quickly that I haven't had time to adapt emotionally. I have OCD with a strongly obsessional quality rather than compulsive. That tends to lead to obsessing over even the great mysteries and needing to have answers to everything *right now* (!). It's not healthy. I think I need to pull back, read more posts, and ease into my unbelief rather than trying to give it a label right now. Someone elsewhere described that as going from one addiction to another. Not sure how accurate of a description that is, but this is a process, so why not take some time with it rather than expect change overnight? Tonight I'm going to have some herbal medicine and take it easy rather than obsessing about all of this. Thanks again for your posts. They've helped a lot.

Yet another service we provide. 

Thanks for taking the time to read it all.  Most of the time I just phone it in, I hope all my future dick jokes stick the landing just as well!

"Landing"? Is that the new euphemism for it?

[Dragonfly]

Khemikal,

Thanks for sharing your story. It does help to read your story and realize that grieving is still gut-wrenching for people of all faiths.

In my parents' church, the verse, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope," is stressed a lot around the time of death. I remember a couple of children whose parent had died, and they didn't even cry for days, if not ever. Even my mom said that it wasn't normal or healthy not to cry or grieve. When my atheist boyfriend's stepfather recently was dying, my mom said that she hoped he had God because otherwise she didn't know how a person could get through a thing like death. At their church funerals, there's a lot of preaching about the hope they have after death. Their website emphasizes not grieving "as those who don't have hope" and that the grief process is much easier to get through than if you don't have God. It never felt normal to me to hear singing about that glorious day that someone "went home to be with the Lord."

bold mine

This sounds a lot like seventh day adventists. If I'm right, it's no wonder why this is so tough on you.

I've read the rest of your posts and have a suggestion. You might try another psychologist (screened to weed out a theist) or even a psychiatrist. Maybe I'm giving your talk of depression/OCD/anxiety/intrusive thoughts to much weight, but if not, it might be worth a try (again).  

And in the long run, if it turns out you need a god (you get to make your own definition) in your life to be happy, then I'd rather you be happy. There is no sense ruining your life or being miserable over a philosophy or position. I'm awash in a sea of content/happy christians.

I see a psychiatrist about once a month, and the psychologist once every two weeks. The psychologist admitted she's biased (Christian) and said she's going to see if there's another therapist who can help me with my existential crisis. I don't think you're giving my OCD talk too much weight. My anxiety is through the roof. I don't know if that was caused by my examining my conditioning or preceded it. All I know is that it feels like I have to have all of the answers *right now!* or I won't be able to handle things if a loved one dies in the meantime. I'm clinging to every moment with my (atheist) boyfriend because I know our time is limited. My fears of Hell (in which I should not believe at this point given my rational mind's conclusion that it doesn't exist) are flooding me. I'm rocking, picking at my skin and nails. I can't seem to focus on anything else but what to believe in and what, if anything, will happen when I die. 

Yes, I am afraid that I might need to hang onto some semblance of god. I want to be someone who examines everything critically and makes judgments based on what is rational, but I don't seem to be doing very well at that so far.  

I'm very sorry to hear you suffer from anxiety and depression. These are things I know a lot about. I have been depressed for large portions of my life, including being close to suicidal for the last 10 years. My anxiety is sometimes so crippling that I can barely move or function. You have my deepest sympathy.

I've somehow managed to keep on fighting, while resisting the urge to succumb to drink or drugs, which would be my equivalent of a religious effect. I haven't killed myself, despite wanting to every day, by focusing on reasons not to, in my case my wife and pets.

I'm not suggesting you are suicidal and I certainly hope you're not, I just wanted to give an impression from someone who has managed without religion with similar problems. I can totally understand that religion has left a hole in your life, and that the natural reaction is to clamour for something to replace it.

Thank you. I do have suicidal thoughts from time to time, but I don't have a plan; it would hurt too many people.

[HappySkeptic]

Hello, 

I was raised in an evangelical Christian fundamentalist home. Fourteen years ago I couldn't take it anymore but couldn't stand the feeling of being "nothing," and Judaism seemed to be a much kinder, truer religion, so I astonished my family by converting to Judaism. I fell away from Judaism over the years, got very religious again a couple of months ago, but just couldn't get anything out of it. Since Rosh Hashanah a couple of weeks ago, I really started searching. I talked with a rabbi, visited a church again and felt totally disillusioned. I've spent countless hours in the last week studying atheism, creationism, religion, philosophy, science, cosmology, evolution, myth, etc., and one by one my beliefs broke. Evolution happened, the world wasn't created in six days, the Big Bang happened, there is no God. I've been hanging onto a delusion out of fear. 

I just came to this realization tonight, and I feel absolutely devastated and lost. I'm a 50-year-old woman who's spent her life making choices based on religion. There is no God to comfort me, guide me, protect me, or intervene in my life. There is no Heaven. I will never see my family, friends, or pets again once they/I die. My entire schema for living has fallen apart. I feel devastated and terrified.  

If you have any guidance, please help me. 

thanks,

dragonfly

I'm a bit late in reply (as I just joined), but let me relate my experience.

I left my Anglican church of 30 years, 6 years ago.  It was both painful, and liberating.

I loved the people at my old church, and I enjoyed the experience, but like you, I lost my belief in an intervening God, and in life after death.  Perhaps the process was more gradual for me, as it took a few years of talking to Christians and atheists on another forum, before finally admitting that all faith was gone.  It was like some part of my life had died, and I was scared at what my wife and friends would think.  I just knew I needed to leave my church -- not because I disliked it, but because religion was in fact too important to me to lie to myself and others about it.

Then came the relief.  God wasn't watching over every perceived failing, and was not guilty of inaction when my 6 y/o nephew died of cancer.  There simply are not gods.  Hard-won scientific knowledge has given us a story of who we are, why we are, and cautions us about what we are capable of.  There is no fate but what we make (Terminator reference  ).

Yes, there is no heaven or hell, but somehow that doesn't scare me either.  The alternative was an eternity of nothing ever happening.  I never existed for the first 13.7 billion years of the universe, and I won't exist for the next trillions.  But, I and my loved ones were here, for a brief moment to know the universe, love, and be part of an interconnected web of humanity.  My own spiritual view is that every moment of every life has value, in that moment -- not for the outcome it will cause in the future, but just for that moment of witness of life itself.  I can cherish it, as I love those around me.  One lifetime, full of experience, is enough.

I haven't read the other comments, but I know you will come through this, and I and others here will be happy to help.

Take care.

---

Once I started reading books on atheism and posting at the Amazon atheist forum (which is now gone), the clouds cleared away.  After that, I never felt better.  Most of my fears and obsessions were left-overs from unreasonable religious ideas, which I quickly dropped.  It's like throwing away crutches which you really don't need anymore.

It was from posting for a few years on Amazon atheist and religion forums that I finally lost all belief.  I started by taking the atheist side of the argument against Christians who made poor arguments.  Then I realized that what I had posted was what I really believed.  I literally talked myself out everything I thought I believed, but really was skeptical about.  Cognitive dissonance is strong in the faithful.  When it broke down, I felt like I had control of reality again.

---

Despite my rationally not believing in God, I'm also having psychological abuse from my childhood surfacing. I think things like "now you've committed the unpardonable sin [by not believing], and at the Judgment when you die, Jesus will say 'I never knew you; depart from me,' and then I will be thrown in Hell. And another thought that "whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before my Father in heaven." In short, all of my toxic, religious crap is surfacing even though my rational brain says it's not true. 

I guess I am having a breakdown. I have immense respect for all of you who are functioning so well in your unbelief. You're apparently much stronger than I am. I don't know how/if I will get through this.

Hugs. I am past the "fear" part of deconversion, but one bit of rationality threw it out the window for me.

Let's pretend there is a God.

Any God that doesn't understand why people of good will and character don't believe in him, isn't omniscient.
Any God that can't seem to alleviate suffering in the world, and doesn't seem to actually do anything provable, isn't omnipotent.
Any God that punishes people for eternity for the crime of unbelief is not omnibenevolent.

Because the god of the bible is claimed by theologians to be all 3 of these things, I can conclude that either God doesn't exist, or theologians don't have an f-ing clue what this God entity they talk about, is. If there is a God, it probably either doesn't care or know anything about us, or thinks Christian theology is really messed up.

[brewer]

bold mine

This sounds a lot like seventh day adventists. If I'm right, it's no wonder why this is so tough on you.

I've read the rest of your posts and have a suggestion. You might try another psychologist (screened to weed out a theist) or even a psychiatrist. Maybe I'm giving your talk of depression/OCD/anxiety/intrusive thoughts to much weight, but if not, it might be worth a try (again).  

And in the long run, if it turns out you need a god (you get to make your own definition) in your life to be happy, then I'd rather you be happy. There is no sense ruining your life or being miserable over a philosophy or position. I'm awash in a sea of content/happy christians.

I see a psychiatrist about once a month, and the psychologist once every two weeks. The psychologist admitted she's biased (Christian) and said she's going to see if there's another therapist who can help me with my existential crisis. I don't think you're giving my OCD talk too much weight. My anxiety is through the roof. I don't know if that was caused by my examining my conditioning or preceded it. All I know is that it feels like I have to have all of the answers *right now!* or I won't be able to handle things if a loved one dies in the meantime. I'm clinging to every moment with my (atheist) boyfriend because I know our time is limited. My fears of Hell (in which I should not believe at this point given my rational mind's conclusion that it doesn't exist) are flooding me. I'm rocking, picking at my skin and nails. I can't seem to focus on anything else but what to believe in and what, if anything, will happen when I die. 

Yes, I am afraid that I might need to hang onto some semblance of god. I want to be someone who examines everything critically and makes judgments based on what is rational, but I don't seem to be doing very well at that so far.  

Have you seen the psychiatrist since you made your experimental turn to atheism? If not, you might want to try to get in asap. A medication assist might be in order. 

What does your atheist boyfriend think about your current state? Hopefully your not making this change because of him. There are lots of people with atheist/religious partnerships. My wife's catholic (not practicing). We're at the point that we just tease each other, I hear the name heathen quite often. She calls AF the whackadoo site. I tell her she's delusional. No harm, no foul. God to her now is just this protective entity that happens to have a life after death place. Other than that she's very rational. Occasionally I need to pull her off the natruopath/herbal ledge but it does not take much. 

OK, that's enough. Find a way to be happy, that's my wish for you.

[Dragonfly]

I see a psychiatrist about once a month, and the psychologist once every two weeks. The psychologist admitted she's biased (Christian) and said she's going to see if there's another therapist who can help me with my existential crisis. I don't think you're giving my OCD talk too much weight. My anxiety is through the roof. I don't know if that was caused by my examining my conditioning or preceded it. All I know is that it feels like I have to have all of the answers *right now!* or I won't be able to handle things if a loved one dies in the meantime. I'm clinging to every moment with my (atheist) boyfriend because I know our time is limited. My fears of Hell (in which I should not believe at this point given my rational mind's conclusion that it doesn't exist) are flooding me. I'm rocking, picking at my skin and nails. I can't seem to focus on anything else but what to believe in and what, if anything, will happen when I die. 

Yes, I am afraid that I might need to hang onto some semblance of god. I want to be someone who examines everything critically and makes judgments based on what is rational, but I don't seem to be doing very well at that so far.  

Have you seen the psychiatrist since you made your experimental turn to atheism? If not, you might want to try to get in asap. A medication assist might be in order. 

What does your atheist boyfriend think about your current state? Hopefully your not making this change because of him. There are lots of people with atheist/religious partnerships. My wife's catholic (not practicing). We're at the point that we just tease each other, I hear the name heathen quite often. She calls AF the whackadoo site. I tell her she's delusional. No harm, no foul. God to her now is just this protective entity that happens to have a life after death place. Other than that she's very rational. Occasionally I need to pull her off the natruopath/herbal ledge but it does not take much. 

OK, that's enough. Find a way to be happy, that's my wish for you.

No. I see my psychiatrist next week, and I'll definitely mention all of this to her. 

I just asked him, and he said, "You're overcoming your programming. You would have come to this conclusion without me." Why? "Because it's an obvious one, and you're a smart person." That I might be losing belief was a concern of mine, but I pressed on with researching. I guess there's no way to know for sure whether it's because of him. Maybe my questioning was aided his by statements, but I'm not sure that means I'm making the change because of him.

[Dragonfly]

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread. I think what I'm having is "cognitive dissonance." Part of my mind is still hanging onto fears, while my rational mind is making progress. The process is painful as hell, but (I'm told) worth it. Three steps forward, two back.

It's surprisingly hard to find a secular therapist who takes Medicaid, but I'm working on it. I did contact my psychiatrist, and she's prescribed something to help me with obsession. I see her later this week as well.

Tomorrow I'm taking to dinner an atheist who had been a Christian well into his adulthood, and we're going to talk about his deconversion process. The atheist community here (SoCal) that I've been in touch with has been very supportive. It's really made an impression on me that atheists, out of kindness and without ulterior motive, are trying to help me. So much for the theory that only good can come from God and every other righteousness is as "filthy rags" to Him. I'm so looking forward to being free from this bullshit.

Thanks again.