Perhaps African Americans Are Finally Catching On

[The Grand Nudger]

...............................

[Brian37]

Xtianity was the tool of the slaveholders!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/nyreg...ss&emc=rss

The Bells of St. Martin’s Fall Silent as Churches in Harlem Struggle

The struggles of the two congregations are emblematic of the troubles afflicting what was once one of the most church-filled and church-conscious neighborhoods in the United States. But attendance in Harlem has dwindled as America has become less religious, and some congregations in Harlem have merged with others in an effort to remain viable. Nationally, with polls indicating that more Americans than ever consider themselves “spiritual but not religious,” headline writers summarize what has happened as “the great American unchurching” or “the de-churching of America.”

Churches, he added, could be replaced by apartment buildings with condominiums filled with the kind of people who will not help the neighborhood’s remaining sanctuaries. “The overwhelming majority of people who buy condominiums in these buildings will be white,” he said, “and therefore will hasten the day that these churches close altogether because it is unlikely that most of these people who move into these condominiums will become members of these churches.”

The churches could be replaced by a WalMart and it would still be an improvement!

Meh, while I value the private sector. and while you cant force any religion out of existence without becoming a monster, the thing big powers always end up with, is POWER. So I see no difference between Walmart or religion. They are both bent on control to gain power.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So says the product of white christianity. You can't even hear yourself.

actually no. my church is over 1/2 black. my best friend, and best man at my wedding is black and his dad not only married me and my wife but was instrumental in teaching me how to study the bible. he gave me a library of books and materials and taught me how to use them. My thoughts on the need for black america to have a relationship with God are his thoughts. He is the one who pointed out that without Christianity all black run civilization amount to little more than third world nations. and he also pointed out that the largest and most successful population of black people in the world live right here in the US with God or at least his principles/morality in the forefronts of their lives. (which is why I spent almost 10 years as an inner city sunday school teacher and camp counselor for the yearly inner city camp, I was one of 6 with anywhere between 80 to 150 kids from ages 10 to 18)

Despite what mans has done using religion to control black people it is God who took those who were faithful out of the stone age and with in a few generation put their descendants shoulder to shoulder with the most advanced man, literally skipping thousands of years of social failure and development that white people went through to get here.

From the literal stone age to the post modern space age in what 5 generations? Compared to their brethren back in africa who struggle with the basics of modern life like a single point of running water in a whole village, and things like electricity, not to mention things like human rights, as most are still in the sex trade/slavery business.

This is what God has done, now you want that to go away and have a whole people abandon God and adopt what? who they were before God was introduced? again look at all of the BEST african nations tell me which one of those cultures you want unleashed on your neighborhood.

You morons have no clue what the idea of God is holding back. it is literally holding the gates of hell closed. why? because it is the worst of the wort who know they need God's redemption. it is the lukewarm moderate fence sitters who think they are moral and need nothing/no God. Take god away completely and you will find out that 5 generations of modern life is not enough to instally pop morality onto a whole people... that it takes 1000s of years for pop morality to develop.. and while you are busy walking your own invisible lines of right and wrong, the linchpin to the gates of hell has been pulled and it's residence will consume your little world.

"My best friend is black." Well, that worked in the '70s.

[brewer]

I'm a prepper I fear no man lest he has more ammo than me. and I can promise you, you... don't.

Before you argue for the sake of just saying the opposite... Do you understand what I am telling you?

I have more ammo, and ammo throwers than you. BOO!

Yes, you are a fear motivated white racist (aids survivor?) liar who hides behind bravado and false justifications.

[Athene]

---

actually no. my church is over 1/2 black. my best friend, and best man at my wedding is black and his dad not only married me and my wife but was instrumental in teaching me how to study the bible. he gave me a library of books and materials and taught me how to use them. My thoughts on the need for black america to have a relationship with God are his thoughts. He is the one who pointed out that without Christianity all black run civilization amount to little more than third world nations. and he also pointed out that the largest and most successful population of black people in the world live right here in the US with God or at least his principles/morality in the forefronts of their lives. (which is why I spent almost 10 years as an inner city sunday school teacher and camp counselor for the yearly inner city camp, I was one of 6 with anywhere between 80 to 150 kids from ages 10 to 18)

Despite what mans has done using religion to control black people it is God who took those who were faithful out of the stone age and with in a few generation put their descendants shoulder to shoulder with the most advanced man, literally skipping thousands of years of social failure and development that white people went through to get here.

From the literal stone age to the post modern space age in what 5 generations? Compared to their brethren back in africa who struggle with the basics of modern life like a single point of running water in a whole village, and things like electricity, not to mention things like human rights, as most are still in the sex trade/slavery business.

This is what God has done, now you want that to go away and have a whole people abandon God and adopt what? who they were before God was introduced? again look at all of the BEST african nations tell me which one of those cultures you want unleashed on your neighborhood.

You morons have no clue what the idea of God is holding back. it is literally holding the gates of hell closed. why? because it is the worst of the wort who know they need God's redemption. it is the lukewarm moderate fence sitters who think they are moral and need nothing/no God. Take god away completely and you will find out that 5 generations of modern life is not enough to instally pop morality onto a whole people... that it takes 1000s of years for pop morality to develop.. and while you are busy walking your own invisible lines of right and wrong, the linchpin to the gates of hell has been pulled and it's residence will consume your little world.

---

LMFAO....Your vivid imagination, chronic ignorance, "TRAGIC HAPA" logic, and tendency towards hysteria causes you to leap to the most wildly racist and STUPID conclusions. You, as well as most "mainstream" atheists, have no clue as to just how many Black non-believers there actually are or what they're up to.

If you think belief in your god is the only thing keeping us from going "full savage" on "Whitey" (and his mouthpieces) you are truly an idiot, Drich.

Black atheists are. They exist. In much, much greater numbers than any of you dolts realize. 
And though I'd like nothing more than to be able to mortify you by informing you that they're vengeance-driven, utterly devolved madmen with death, destruction, and mayhem on their minds just to watch you melt-down further, the truth is they're not. In actuality, they're a lot like "mainstream" atheist with a few notable differences. 

One of them being that most of them don't congregate in spaces that center on atheism. You just won't find many Black atheists cloistered together in online atheist hovels jerking each other off all day babbling non-stop about atheism. There are a few Black atheist forums, but most of them don't get much in the way of continuous traffic. And they don't join up on sites like this in significant numbers because...well, they have eyes. If they lurk long enough on "mainstream" atheist sites like AF they'll inevitably see some deeply unwelcoming, hostile shit and quickly surmise that "mainstream" atheist sites aren't aren't good places for Black atheists to be. 

Now, BLM (which is not a terrorist organization, as you seem to believe) is one of the spaces, but it is by no stretch of the imagination Black Atheist Central. If you knew half as much as you THINK you do and had your ear to the ground, you'd know that a number of Black atheists actually moved on from BLM some time ago AND that a substantially larger number of Black atheists are well-represented and integrated into various Black lifestyle, political, and general discussion forums. Their numbers and influence have increased to the point that while they may not be the norm, they are considered a norm in a multitude of major Black social media spaces. Because of that, they're getting less negativity and pushback, and are garnering more questions and interest from Black believers; And unlike you, they've got real answers. 

Their numbers are greater than AND growing much faster then you or others realize.

Do not tell me "No", Drich. I am a Black atheist, and I interact, engage in discussion, and exchange ideas with plenty of these folks online and in real life on almost a daily basis. And while many of them ARE interested in addressing some of the problems presented by White Supremacy as matter of fairness, burning America to the ground and "killing White people"  is not on the agenda. 
Lawful protest and VOTER education, registration and awareness is; All very AMERICAN shit, mind you. Because by and large, Black atheists tend to be very rational, reasonable and remarkably fair-minded people, as most have a decidedly Humanist worldview. 

Now I won't deny that there's an element among Blacks that IS vehemently anti-white and anti-American...but if you think that's predominantly coming from Black atheists, you're barking up the wrong tree. 
Ever heard of Black Liberation Theology?

Your Black Christian brethren are rejecting White Jesus in increasing numbers and substituting their own.
And a LOT of them are rejecting ALL things White right along with Him. 

How's that for irony?

[Drich]

Xtianity was the tool of the slaveholders!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/nyreg...ss&emc=rss





The churches could be replaced by a WalMart and it would still be an improvement!

Meh, while I value the private sector. and while you cant force any religion out of existence without becoming a monster, the thing big powers always end up with, is POWER. So I see no difference between Walmart or religion. They are both bent on control to gain power.

which is idealistic crap.

If the walmart option were an option then it would already be on the table as with the white trash/red neck crowd. I'm not saying black people don't go to walmart, I am saying there is no movement as with the black panthers or with BLM in the black community centered around walmart currently.(wal-mart representing low end consumers/people who buy junk for spiritual fulfillment. Being a social group who's typically in or below the poverty level precludes a consumer based community.

If you think other wise, my challenge goes to you as well. Show me something other than the church that pushes the american dream as white america defines it. Show me a social organisation not affiliated with or is the church that pushes 'white laws and morality.' Show me a non religious social group as big as BLM or has an equal social impact not affiliated with God in any way that urges blac people to work and to assimilate into western/white culture and not seek vengeance or retribution that black people are already apart of outside the church. 

That is what the church teaches all of use not white or black slave or free. we are to forgive we are to live in love via a moral life we are to treat each others despite skin color as brothers. we are not to seek retribution but extend forgiveness as Christ has forgiven us. The best black people have to off is the same as everyone else and it is through the church. Take the church away and everything we have now whether it be meloncollie of white atheists or the anger and destruction of BLM get multiplied by those being buffered by the church. Which is why I keep asking for moderate examples of black people in america who are not apart of the church and still seek to be apart of America as a minority.

If we do not have this now, then what makes you think we will have it after millions of despondent black people leave a God who they feel was their last hope, yet lied or was never real?

---

actually no. my church is over 1/2 black. my best friend, and best man at my wedding is black and his dad not only married me and my wife but was instrumental in teaching me how to study the bible. he gave me a library of books and materials and taught me how to use them. My thoughts on the need for black america to have a relationship with God are his thoughts. He is the one who pointed out that without Christianity all black run civilization amount to little more than third world nations. and he also pointed out that the largest and most successful population of black people in the world live right here in the US with God or at least his principles/morality in the forefronts of their lives. (which is why I spent almost 10 years as an inner city sunday school teacher and camp counselor for the yearly inner city camp, I was one of 6 with anywhere between 80 to 150 kids from ages 10 to 18)

Despite what mans has done using religion to control black people it is God who took those who were faithful out of the stone age and with in a few generation put their descendants shoulder to shoulder with the most advanced man, literally skipping thousands of years of social failure and development that white people went through to get here.

From the literal stone age to the post modern space age in what 5 generations? Compared to their brethren back in africa who struggle with the basics of modern life like a single point of running water in a whole village, and things like electricity, not to mention things like human rights, as most are still in the sex trade/slavery business.

This is what God has done, now you want that to go away and have a whole people abandon God and adopt what? who they were before God was introduced? again look at all of the BEST african nations tell me which one of those cultures you want unleashed on your neighborhood.

You morons have no clue what the idea of God is holding back. it is literally holding the gates of hell closed. why? because it is the worst of the wort who know they need God's redemption. it is the lukewarm moderate fence sitters who think they are moral and need nothing/no God. Take god away completely and you will find out that 5 generations of modern life is not enough to instally pop morality onto a whole people... that it takes 1000s of years for pop morality to develop.. and while you are busy walking your own invisible lines of right and wrong, the linchpin to the gates of hell has been pulled and it's residence will consume your little world.

"My best friend is black." Well, that worked in the '70s.  

It's not the 70's moron and he was also the best man at my wedding and his Father was the presiding minister at our wedding. We met at church working together at our church's inner city out reach. where we went into poor neighborhoods rounded up the kids sunday morning and took them to church, had lunch with them, then had some sort of activity during the day and took them back after evening services every week for almost 10 years. then every summer we did an inner city camp which usually had over 100 kids who never left the city at a week long sleep away camp. usually had 4 consulers 2 for the boys (which was like a juvie hall/boot camp thing for a few days) and two for the girls. He also went to school on a wrestling scholarship which helped at camp because some of the kids weren't all kids..

[brewer]

---

LMFAO....Your vivid imagination, chronic ignorance, "TRAGIC HAPA" logic, and tendency towards hysteria causes you to leap to the most wildly racist and STUPID conclusions. You, as well as most "mainstream" atheists, have no clue as to just how many Black non-believers there actually are or what they're up to.

If you think belief in your god is the only thing keeping us from going "full savage" on "Whitey" (and his mouthpieces) you are truly an idiot, Drich.

Black atheists are. They exist. In much, much greater numbers than any of you dolts realize. 
And though I'd like nothing more than to be able to mortify you by informing you that they're vengeance-driven, utterly devolved madmen with death, destruction, and mayhem on their minds just to watch you melt-down further, the truth is they're not. In actuality, they're a lot like "mainstream" atheist with a few notable differences. 

One of them being that most of them don't congregate in spaces that center on atheism. You just won't find many Black atheists cloistered together in online atheist hovels jerking each other off all day babbling non-stop about atheism. There are a few Black atheist forums, but most of them don't get much in the way of continuous traffic. And they don't join up on sites like this in significant numbers because...well, they have eyes. If they lurk long enough on "mainstream" atheist sites like AF they'll inevitably see some deeply unwelcoming, hostile shit and quickly surmise that "mainstream" atheist sites aren't aren't good places for Black atheists to be. 

Now, BLM (which is not a terrorist organization, as you seem to believe) is one of the spaces, but it is by no stretch of the imagination Black Atheist Central. If you knew half as much as you THINK you do and had your ear to the ground, you'd know that a number of Black atheists actually moved on from BLM some time ago AND that a substantially larger number of Black atheists are well-represented and integrated into various Black lifestyle, political, and general discussion forums. Their numbers and influence have increased to the point that while they may not be the norm, they are considered a norm in a multitude of major Black social media spaces. Because of that, they're getting less negativity and pushback, and are garnering more questions and interest from Black believers; And unlike you, they've got real answers. 

Their numbers are greater than AND growing much faster then you or others realize.

Do not tell me "No", Drich. I am a Black atheist, and I interact, engage in discussion, and exchange ideas with plenty of these folks online and in real life on almost a daily basis. And while many of them ARE interested in addressing some of the problems presented by White Supremacy as matter of fairness, burning America to the ground and "killing White people"  is not on the agenda. 
Lawful protest and VOTER education, registration and awareness is; All very AMERICAN shit, mind you. Because by and large, Black atheists tend to be very rational, reasonable and remarkably fair-minded people, as most have a decidedly Humanist worldview. 

Now I won't deny that there's an element among Blacks that IS vehemently anti-white and anti-American...but if you think that's predominantly coming from Black atheists, you're barking up the wrong tree. 
Ever heard of Black Liberation Theology?

Your Black Christian brethren are rejecting White Jesus in increasing numbers and substituting their own.
And a LOT of them are rejecting ALL things White right along with Him. 

How's that for irony?  

---

Hello Thena. It's wonderful to see you again.

[Drich]

I'm a prepper I fear no man lest he has more ammo than me. and I can promise you, you... don't.

Before you argue for the sake of just saying the opposite... Do you understand what I am telling you?

I have more ammo, and ammo throwers than you. BOO!

Yes, you are a fear motivated white racist (aids survivor?) liar who hides behind bravado and false justifications.

which is a weak minded way of saying you can not provide the social examples i asked for. I've put my time in working one on one in the local black community, for over a decade, and did not see anyone else make the effort. However I did personally note a huge amount of pressure to segergate and circle the wagons as it were. to bann all white people and their help, which is one of the reasons the program stopped after 10 years.

I do not fear black people even growing u with my white grandfather I saw very little difference between his life style and black people. I saw it as southern poor. we ate the same food (except opossum, but we would trap them and sell them to black people at the flea market) we went to the same kid of church we drove the same crappy cars, and fancy stores made you wait outside. We even share the same feeling against angry blacks as well as angry whites. We all just wanted to be left alone and a fair shake.

I got older and had the opportunity to help families out in the inner city I took that opportunity. me my 20 year old best friend out of that deal, and then after that program closed down started my business, my first hire was a black guy, and I have 3 black guys working for me now. heck I even have three black chickens and 4 redish brown ones.

Understand I do not fear black people in the least. I picked up my guardian angel after dark in the black side of town to take him in the 'no go zone after dark of black town' back then. I fear no man nor any group of men armed or not. I will not let fear dictate my life. I do what is right and damn everything else. I rather die doing what I thought to be the right thing then live 100 years sitting on the fence. I hire people knowing by stereotype that it says they will screw me. some do , while other's don't as it is an individual decision for that person to make.

That said I also know there is a side black people show to white people and there is a side that black people show to other blacks. I don't pretend to have full knowledge here but I have lived it long enough to see it and see a rising sub culture of anger unforgiveness and hate. primarily because the communities are being taught they are owed more, that they will never be enough because of their skin color. which is crap because people of 'color' from other communities thrive. Asians for example, Indians (from india), Jews, Arabs.. all have a history of thriving in the US. Asians being above white people when it comes to wealth in this country (percentage wise)

[Drich]

LMFAO....Your vivid imagination, chronic ignorance, "TRAGIC HAPA" logic, and tendency towards hysteria causes you to leap to the most wildly racist and STUPID conclusions. You, as well as most "mainstream" atheists, have no clue as to just how many Black non-believers there actually are or what they're up to.

If you think belief in your god is the only thing keeping us from going "full savage" on "Whitey" (and his mouthpieces) you are truly an idiot, Drich.

Black atheists are. They exist. In much, much greater numbers than any of you dolts realize. 
And though I'd like nothing more than to be able to mortify you by informing you that they're vengeance-driven, utterly devolved madmen with death, destruction, and mayhem on their minds just to watch you melt-down further, the truth is they're not. In actuality, they're a lot like "mainstream" atheist with a few notable differences. 

One of them being that most of them don't congregate in spaces that center on atheism. You just won't find many Black atheists cloistered together in online atheist hovels jerking each other off all day babbling non-stop about atheism. There are a few Black atheist forums, but most of them don't get much in the way of continuous traffic. And they don't join up on sites like this in significant numbers because...well, they have eyes. If they lurk long enough on "mainstream" atheist sites like AF they'll inevitably see some deeply unwelcoming, hostile shit and quickly surmise that "mainstream" atheist sites aren't aren't good places for Black atheists to be. 

Now, BLM (which is not a terrorist organization, as you seem to believe) 

you are making my case for me. as an apologist for black lives matter and an atheist, you are doing what I predicted you would do. If you would have read idk 1/2 of what I said, I wouldn't be able to use everything you said like a puppet.. this will be fun.

is one of the spaces, but it is by no stretch of the imagination Black Atheist Central. If you knew half as much as you THINK you do and had your ear to the ground, you'd know that a number of Black atheists actually moved on from BLM some time ago AND that a substantially larger number of Black atheists are well-represented and integrated into various Black lifestyle, political, and general discussion forums. Their numbers and influence have increased to the point that while they may not be the norm, they are considered a norm in a multitude of major Black social media spaces. Because of that, they're getting less negativity and pushback, and are garnering more questions and interest from Black believers; And unlike you, they've got real answers. 

Their numbers are greater than AND growing much faster then you or others realize.

lol... so a group of black people who are not in league with black lives matter,  yet like the church teaches black people to embrace american culture, to put off the idea that black culture and american culture are two different things! to forgive slavery, to not seek reparations to help stomp out the lie of white privilege, and this group of black atheists also teach the morality of white america and tells black people all drugs are bad, that marriage is good, and sex out of wed lock is also bad... Whaaaat???? No you say? your group teaches the opposite? Didn't I already call that? or are you so busy being angry black person you are blindly agreeing with everything I am saying?

I am saying it is the church that keeps both cultures in line with one another it demands a single set of morals/rules to govern both equally. I am saying the church teaches absolute forgiveness/lest your atonement and forgiveness be lost.. to forgive anything black people feel owed by whites. I'm saying the church embraces and teaches the american dream. Wife Then kids House/morage family good job one has to work hard at. honest pay. In contrast to blm's demand that black families be given housing jobs by getting whites fired.. that white america be made to work around the black culture which is whatever anyone wants when they want it so long as their skin is the right shade of brown.

Do not tell me "No", Drich. I am a Black atheist, and I interact, engage in discussion, and exchange ideas with plenty of these folks online and in real life on almost a daily basis. And while many of them ARE interested in addressing some of the problems presented by White Supremacy as matter of fairness, burning America to the ground and "killing White people"  is not on the agenda.

None of this is about "kill whitey" moron, It is about embracing and establish black culture apart from an united american culture. Don't be fucking so stupid as to bring hate you have into a conversation where killing whitey had yet to even be uttered jokingly. READ before you speak. Ask a question if you do not understand. I am not arguing a "right/left position" I am speaking from the middle. I am speaking the same stuff MLK jr ask for demanded and himself taught! What floors me is "you people"/people who read this and do not understand Do not recognise the work words and efforts of MLK jr. That you see hate and bigotry in a man you pretend to praise. Which only goes to show how far from quality, people like you have strayed from. Meaning I was shown MLKjr position on the church and america. more specifically it's role in black america and how it is used to define and refine a people would would otherwise be lost to themselves and to soceity. MLKjr used the church as an example of the division in this country and how this country would be healed if it heeded the lesson of the same jesus we worshiped. I started out telling I came from a more than 1/2 black church and can tell you what a glimpse of mlkJr dream was about. Having seen this, and having seen modern black lead social groups outside the church in action
I can promise none of what MLKjr wanted will come from what these organized groups want for themselves.

Lawful protest and VOTER education, registration and awareness is; All very AMERICAN shit, mind you. Because by and large, Black atheists tend to be very rational, reasonable and remarkably fair-minded people, as most have a decidedly Humanist worldview.

But here's the difference. here is the part that is not american at all. "we" not just white but every other nationality in this country mexican white european asians all use those rights to cast off the chains of the nations or states where we once lived so we could come here and live together as one people... Black people are using those right to divide this country so they can live as an independent people not subject to this nations rules or laws. (again so says the black panthers as well as blm.)

You might have a great number of people who do indeed are moderate and think as you do, but it is not an organized effort and like other unorganized effort all it will take is a strike at the heart of what you all believe and you all will be absorbed into other groups.. think MLKjr peaceful protests and nonviolent marches, once he the only real leader was gone.. what was left became militant. Which is why I keep asking for a group well known or as big as blm.. I'm not saying this is the standard right now by any means it is just an example of organized back society.. or go off shore the nation states of sub saharan africa. In essence show me a well organized black community that everyone would want to live in. For example As far as arab nations go I would think most of us would like to live in dubi if we had the means or money. Or Tokyo or seoul for asian countries. maybe one of those free everything danish countries for europe or cuba or puerto rico or a caribbean or cayman island for latino/cuban nations. Show me an example of a welcoming black community where people if they had the money would pay to live.

Now I won't deny that there's an element among Blacks that IS vehemently anti-white and anti-American...but if you think that's predominantly coming from Black atheists, you're barking up the wrong tree. 

Ever heard of Black Liberation Theology

honestly it is not even about them. I see those guys like the kkk or taliban their will always be extremist in all social groups and those few should not be used to judge everyone else.

Your Black Christian brethren are rejecting White Jesus in increasing numbers and substituting their own.
And a LOT of them are rejecting ALL things White right along with Him. 

How's that for irony?

hate to break your heart sweet heart, but jesus was a jew, and you are right, which is the problem I out lined and you demonstrated you fit the mold I cast.

[Brian37]

Xtianity was the tool of the slaveholders!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/nyreg...ss&emc=rss

The Bells of St. Martin’s Fall Silent as Churches in Harlem Struggle

The struggles of the two congregations are emblematic of the troubles afflicting what was once one of the most church-filled and church-conscious neighborhoods in the United States. But attendance in Harlem has dwindled as America has become less religious, and some congregations in Harlem have merged with others in an effort to remain viable. Nationally, with polls indicating that more Americans than ever consider themselves “spiritual but not religious,” headline writers summarize what has happened as “the great American unchurching” or “the de-churching of America.”

Churches, he added, could be replaced by apartment buildings with condominiums filled with the kind of people who will not help the neighborhood’s remaining sanctuaries. “The overwhelming majority of people who buy condominiums in these buildings will be white,” he said, “and therefore will hasten the day that these churches close altogether because it is unlikely that most of these people who move into these condominiums will become members of these churches.”

The churches could be replaced by a WalMart and it would still be an improvement!

Um while everyone knows I am no fan of any old mythology, I am also not a fan of over simplifications of a complex species.

Neither religion, or private business are going to end on a planet of 7 billion. But, what can happen if more humans focus on what we have in common, like need of resources and stable lives, and not give religion or wealth monopolies of power, we could provide for more humans and create more stability worldwide.

Point being, sure, in my utopia there would be no religion at all, no greed in humans, in my pragmatic reality though, the only viable thing I can see is promoting anti monopoly concepts so that neither religion or business can exploit or abuse.