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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 23, 2011 at 11:05 am
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2011 at 11:06 am by Ace Otana.)
Funny thing is, the "what if you're wrong" argument can go both ways.
What if you're wrong about Allah? Thor, Zeus, Mars, Hades? You could go to hell too.
Pascals wager doesn't exactly work.
Besides, I haven't rejected any god, merely the claim that the theist have put forth. Perhaps I'm in a far safer position than you.
In fact, by rejecting your barbaric god seeing as I see him as extremely irrational and immoral, I've probably given any real god far greater respect than you.
Because I really don't think a being that is all knowing and all wise can be that stupid.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 23, 2011 at 11:07 am
Here's to standing up for gods you don't believe in! 
(most of our apologists make me want to defend god, rather than criticize the notion)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 23, 2011 at 11:59 am
Well when a god or allah or thor or zeus comes down and goes ok yinz it's time to go then i guess i'll just go whoops, but there is no way at least for me I am going to ignore the laws of physics and logic and reason. and not enjoy my life the way I determine I want to. And have some idiot man made book tell me what I can and can't do for fear of and imaginary consequence is absurd.
Bill Maher: If you believe that the world is going to come to an end - and perhaps any day now - does it not drain one's motivation to improve life on earth while we're here?
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 4:26 pm
(September 21, 2011 at 6:08 pm)xxxtobymac Wrote: theist keep on saying what if your wrong and our immortal souls are vanquished to hell. And athiest come back with what if your wrong. And I was thinking wouldn't it be more than worth our time to be able to control what we can while we are here on earth. Creationist have such blind faith that they are going to go to the disneyland in the sky that they really don't care about what happens here on earth.. This is where the problem is. Let's see what happens if the theist are wrong and there is no disneyland and we don't clean up the earth and protect the planet for those who come after us. the thing is Global warming in real, it has facts to back it up, God and heaven there is no facts, no proof it exist. and yet they still continue to choose the non proof over proof i just don't get it/
If there is an Afterlife, it would be the greatest foolishness and tragedy to miss out on it, would it not? So, it follows from that that no effort should be spared in determining whether or not it does indeed exist. I have not come across a single person who regards the Afterlife as non-existent who has made anything like a serious effort to find out for themselves whether or not it actually exists. Just claiming that others haven't proved its existence to you hardly helps matters, does it?
Furthermore, to limit one's ambition for oneself to the level of a farm animal's that just lives for the moment and does not engage in a search for an overarching cosmology is hardly worthy of an intelligent human being, is it? The butcher's knife awaits the ignorant animal - should a human being not try to escape from such a fate - if such is at all possible?
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Pascals Wager amigo.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 6:40 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 4:26 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: If there is an Afterlife, it would be the greatest foolishness and tragedy to miss out on it, would it not? So, it follows from that that no effort should be spared in determining whether or not it does indeed exist.
'No effort' is precisely what I spare doing that. None whatsoever.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 6:48 pm
What if your wrong?
'what if your wrong about the juju monster up the mountain, or Thor and odin'
Something like what Richard Dawkins said to this very question.
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 7:07 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 7:17 pm by Zaki Aminu.)
(September 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Pascals Wager amigo.
Do you disagree with applying caution as a general principle in one's decision-making then?
(September 28, 2011 at 6:48 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: What if your wrong?
'what if your wrong about the juju monster up the mountain, or Thor and odin'
Something like what Richard Dawkins said to this very question.
If I'm wrong about something then I'll undoubtedly suffer the consequences for my error. So it would make sense for me to try and minimize my errors as much as possible, wouldn't it?
It doesn't seem to me like Richard Dawkins is prepared to face up to the consequences of him being in error - hence the refusal to answer the question without histrionics. I suspect too that he is aware that he is in error on some major issues and is terified of the impending consequences - hence the strenuous objection at being reminded of this fear.
(September 28, 2011 at 6:40 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 4:26 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: If there is an Afterlife, it would be the greatest foolishness and tragedy to miss out on it, would it not? So, it follows from that that no effort should be spared in determining whether or not it does indeed exist.
'No effort' is precisely what I spare doing that. None whatsoever.
If you mean you're working as hard as you can to discover the answers to the big questions then good for you. If not, then that's very sad.
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Why is it a sad thing that I have better things to do with my life than pretend that there might be some better life to come after I'm dead? Take your pity, shove it up your arse, and fuck off, you sanctimonious twat.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The what if your wrong argument.
September 28, 2011 at 8:49 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 4:26 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: If there is an Afterlife, it would be the greatest foolishness and tragedy to miss out on it, would it not? So, it follows from that that no effort should be spared in determining whether or not it does indeed exist. I have not come across a single person who regards the Afterlife as non-existent who has made anything like a serious effort to find out for themselves whether or not it actually exists. Just claiming that others haven't proved its existence to you hardly helps matters, does it?
How does one go about determining that an afterlife exists?
OK, for arguments sake, lets say that there is an afterlife.
Now what? How does one know what would cause them to miss out on it? How do we know that missing out on it would be a bad thing?
Of all the gods described in various Bronze Age texts, only 2 seem to reward believers. So, right from the start we have many more gods that don't seem to mind if you believe they exist or not.
And that only takes into consideration the gods described in the various texts. What's to say that the god that exists is one that isn't in any of the texts?
There are literally an infinite number of gods that could be described that have all sorts of different rules for getting into their afterlives.
My favorite god is the one that rewards those of us that have determined, using the brain he gave us, that there was insufficient evidence to justify belief he exists. The afterlife is filled with non-believers.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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