On the subject of Hell and Salvation

[Alternatehistory95]

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

[Nakara]

My father used to be of the belief that people who were never exposed to Christianity were automatically saved...that is, until I brought up the point as to why in the hell are we not keeping Christianity a secret if that means everyone will then get a free ticket?

[Brian37]

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

I agree, and the worst part is some say, God will forgive them it they didn't know. But yet go on missions to make the claim, then blame the people they preach to for still not accepting it. So how is that not being complicit in causing needless condemnation, whereas if you never sold the claim, they'd be fine?

There are 7 billion humans on this planet. It may be hard for any religion to believe, but look around hard enough there will be people who have never heard of the sect one might claim.

Really no different than even in America, knowing how many people CANT name all 45 presidents. I am one of them.

[no one]

Stupidity can justify that 2+2=22.

[Duty]

Another thing is that only a TRUE believer can possibly be saved, according to Xtianity, yet nobody has a choice over whether they believe or not, people just believe what they perceive to be the truth.

[Yonadav]

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

It has been pointed out quite often by pretty much everyone for centuries. For example, Defoe gives the issue extensive treatment in Robinson Crusoe, which he wrote 300 years ago. His conclusion- it isn't their fault that savages were born in a place where they couldn't receive the good news, so they are completely innocent of sin.

Of course, the obvious conclusion to draw from that conclusion is that no one should tell them the good news, ever.

[Brian37]

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

It has been pointed out quite often by pretty much everyone for centuries. For example, Defoe gives the issue extensive treatment in Robinson Crusoe, which he wrote 300 years ago. His conclusion- it isn't their fault that savages were born in a place where they couldn't receive the good news, so they are completely innocent of sin.

Of course, the obvious conclusion to draw from that conclusion is that no one should tell them the good news, ever.

Um no, the obvious conclusion is that religion is human made. 

I don't know if you remember the recent story where the missionary stupidly went to the Island off of India, and even after being warned not to do it, to spread the good news to an isolated people, and needlessly got himself murdered. I am quite sure that isolated tribe has gods of their own.

[Yonadav]

It has been pointed out quite often by pretty much everyone for centuries. For example, Defoe gives the issue extensive treatment in Robinson Crusoe, which he wrote 300 years ago. His conclusion- it isn't their fault that savages were born in a place where they couldn't receive the good news, so they are completely innocent of sin.

Of course, the obvious conclusion to draw from that conclusion is that no one should tell them the good news, ever.

Um no, the obvious conclusion is that religion is human made. 

I don't know if you remember the recent story where the missionary stupidly went to the Island off of India, and even after being warned not to do it, to spread the good news to an isolated people, and needlessly got himself murdered. I am quite sure that isolated tribe has gods of their own.

Believe it or not, not every discussion is an invitation for you to play the same broken record.  I am not an xian, and even I know that almost every xian denomination has pondered the question concerning those who have never heard 'the good news'. Almost all of them have some caveat about how such people are blameless, and that if they served their deity in the way that they understood him, then it can be presumed that they would have desired to accept 'the good news' if they had heard it, and they might be saved on these grounds.

This is a discussion, dude. Try having a discussion instead of trying to pick the same fight in every single thread.

[Brian37]

Um no, the obvious conclusion is that religion is human made. 

I don't know if you remember the recent story where the missionary stupidly went to the Island off of India, and even after being warned not to do it, to spread the good news to an isolated people, and needlessly got himself murdered. I am quite sure that isolated tribe has gods of their own.

Believe it or not, not every discussion is an invitation for you to play the same broken record.  I am not an xian, and even I know that almost every xian denomination has pondered the question concerning those who have never heard 'the good news'. Almost all of them have some caveat about how such people are blameless, and that if they served their deity in the way that they understood him, then it can be presumed that they would have desired to accept 'the good news' if they had heard it, and they might be saved on these grounds.

This is a discussion, dude. Try having a discussion instead of trying to pick the same fight in every single thread.

"Broken record"?

That's rich, modern science has not been claiming things like magic babies, or Thor. Claims of deities have been around long before not only modern science, but even before written language. I agree there is a broken record, but not from skeptics pointing out broken logic that keeps being repeated.

I'd say that not enough humans are saying, "That was then, this is now."

And I don't care that you say you are not a Christian. If you post something, I will respond to it. 

If you are expecting me to lie to myself or anyone reading this for that matter, I cant do that.

Not liking my responses does not make me wrong.

I see nothing wrong with ditching old claims. In fact, I see everything right about it. If someone says "that is not true" that is not a matter of fighting, but pointing out an error.

[zebo-the-fat]

I had one guy tell me that I had to believe or I would go to hell, he seemed confused when I told him that it was impossible just to "decide" to believe. Like saying from 9:00 am on Monday morning I will believe. To believe in something you need to be fully convinced by the evidence provided, I'm still waiting for that