Beating women in Islam

[WinterHold]

The world is built and constructed on a weak system, criminals rule and their influence grow, take Putin, to Trump, passing by the rightist mobs in Europe down to Saudi Arabia. Let's not forget Africa that is almost forgotten now.

MBS is gaining ground because he has support from sides in the already corrupt world.
Korea's Kim is the same.

There's a group of multi-cultural assholes supporting each other to satisfy eathothers' interests. And most deals they make are with a very, very painful consequences on a large portion of the people.

Instead of thinking in religious terms, which is where most people think their morality is magically handed down to them, think in natural terms.

If you would rightfully agree that many Christians and Jews see you as the enemy, and unfortunately they do, what makes more sense to you? Are they basing that on the fact that you are Charles Manson or Ted Bundy? Or are they basing that on the fact that they, like Muslims, are basing that on religion?

If you go out every day and rape and murder women, or children, like a serial killer, I'd hate you too. But, if you are not doing that, then all our species beefs really amount to tribalism.

---

But the Islamic philosophy about morality is that adapting it is the person's own choice; i.e there are many choices -some are good and some are bad-, and we choose between them. That's what makes up "who you are". Nothing is handed down to us but the ability to choose, the rest is up to us.

I don't think religion is the main motive for hatred between different religious factions; but it is the mob mentality that governs most followers of a certain faith. Take for example a group of Christians, naturally they would reject a Muslim or a HIndu, the rejection would be combined though with attempts of "converting the person into their faith".

That is not limited to religion; Brian: all clubs and all groups do that -almost all-, and religions are just like that:different clubs and lobbies.
It's not just tribalism. You can join any of the clubs -convert your faith-, and mostly you'll be accepted and in some cases cherished too.

[WinterHold]

Why isn't Trump in prison? Why isn't Kim Jong Un in prison?

Power unfortunately.

https://donate.amnestyusa.org/page/26346...gIs4_D_BwE


https://exmuslims.org/

https://twitter.com/ayaan?lang=en

https://twitter.com/cemb_forum?lang=en



Those orgs will not care if you are still Muslim, but if you contact them, the have far more power/resources than I do and are more likely to be able to help you.

And it cant hurt to tell your story to any other media in the west, like CNN or MSNBC. You got our attention here, but this isn't a powerful website as far as money and power.

Just keep plugging to anyone and everyone in the west you can think of.

Thank you for the links Brian, I will try CNN and MSNBC..
But the ex-Muslim organization does not represent what I am. I would never label myself as an "ex-Muslim" or a critic of the original faith; my belief is that the faith is originally pure, but the different sects along with the additions to its source book, are the reason behind the sad fate it met.

And atop of that, most oppression Muslims face is originally political; religion is a mere blanket to justify the abuse. The real goal is either money or control. That is never discussed in the community's "About Us" page. 

Simply, a corrupt dictator takes control. He then pays billions to local religious institutions to work by his side -like the Sauds & the Wahhabi institution-. Then these institution become generators of "the mad thoughts of the dictator that purchased them, covered with a religious blanket". People suffer from that mainly. The religion is a mere medium for the institution to pass laws that would satisfy the dictator that purchased them

[The Grand Nudger]

Rough spot to be in.  Smart enough to know better, still silly enough to imagine otherwise. 

That last bit, above, describes Big Mo as aptly as any current middle eastern chieftan. Whenever you (and the people of the region, as a whole) realize that the religion is the disease, rather than the cure, you might make progress. The prospect of that isn't really all that rosy for the current 1st world powers..so plenty of money is spent keeping you sniffing each others asses five times a day - mainly because a bunch of fundies and apologists are far more useful to us. The West, the great satan..drawing from our own history with an understanding of the compulsive nature of monotheistic faith, knows what drives the middle eastern world and because of this, knows how to manipulate it, and you. We intentionally fund israel because we know that it enrages you, for example..and that you will speak out and act out on that - granting us pretext for greater funding of isreal..which is just a forward airbase in the middle east, to us.

Harsh, I know.....lol.

[WinterHold]

Rough spot to be in.  Smart enough to know better, still silly enough to imagine otherwise. 

That last bit, above, describes Big Mo as aptly as any current middle eastern chieftan.  Whenever you (and the people of the region, as a whole) realize that the religion is the disease, rather than the cure, you might make progress.  The prospect of that isn't really all that rosy for the current 1st world powers..so plenty of money is spent keeping you sniffing each others asses five times a day - mainly because a bunch of fundies and apologists are far more useful to us.  The West, the great satan..drawing from our own history with an understanding of the compulsive nature of monotheistic faith, knows what drives the middle eastern world and because of this, knows how to manipulate it, and you.  We intentionally fund israel because we know that it enrages you, for example..and that you will speak out and act out on that - granting us pretext for greater funding of isreal..which is just a forward airbase in the middle east, to us.

Harsh, I know.....lol.

You see, Islam always has believers because all the systems in the world has something missing; they all fail to contain the individual fully, they fail to satisfy the needs of a person fully. The terrible acts of Sunni/Shiite figureheads are not to be blamed on the source book.

Islam provides what human systems can't provide.

Ask around the whole world, and you'll find a lot of people saying that Islam's concepts cured them actually from so many diseases like racism and blind nationalism.

The best times in our time as Middle Eastern people were the times Islam led the world.

Israel's creation is as problematic to me as the Spanish Conquests of the Americas. It's painful to see what happened to the Native Americans happen allover again but to Arabs this time.

[Angrboda]

Rough spot to be in.  Smart enough to know better, still silly enough to imagine otherwise. 

That last bit, above, describes Big Mo as aptly as any current middle eastern chieftan.  Whenever you (and the people of the region, as a whole) realize that the religion is the disease, rather than the cure, you might make progress.  The prospect of that isn't really all that rosy for the current 1st world powers..so plenty of money is spent keeping you sniffing each others asses five times a day - mainly because a bunch of fundies and apologists are far more useful to us.  The West, the great satan..drawing from our own history with an understanding of the compulsive nature of monotheistic faith, knows what drives the middle eastern world and because of this, knows how to manipulate it, and you.  We intentionally fund israel because we know that it enrages you, for example..and that you will speak out and act out on that - granting us pretext for greater funding of isreal..which is just a forward airbase in the middle east, to us.

Harsh, I know.....lol.

You see, Islam always has believers because  all the systems in the world has something missing; they all fail to contain the individual fully, they fail to satisfy the needs of a person fully. The terrible acts of Sunni/Shiite figureheads are not to be blamed on the source book.

Islam provides what human systems can't provide.

Ask around the whole world, and you'll find a lot of people saying that Islam's concepts cured them actually from so many diseases like racism and blind nationalism.

The best times in our time as Middle Eastern people were the times Islam led the world.

Israel's creation is as problematic to me as the Spanish Conquests of the Americas. It's painful to see what happened to the Native Americans happen allover again but to Arabs this time.

You realize that by supporting any Islam, even the mythical one you seem to want to imagine has or could exist, you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy who is making your life hell, don't you?

[The Grand Nudger]

Rough spot to be in.  Smart enough to know better, still silly enough to imagine otherwise. 

That last bit, above, describes Big Mo as aptly as any current middle eastern chieftan.  Whenever you (and the people of the region, as a whole) realize that the religion is the disease, rather than the cure, you might make progress.  The prospect of that isn't really all that rosy for the current 1st world powers..so plenty of money is spent keeping you sniffing each others asses five times a day - mainly because a bunch of fundies and apologists are far more useful to us.  The West, the great satan..drawing from our own history with an understanding of the compulsive nature of monotheistic faith, knows what drives the middle eastern world and because of this, knows how to manipulate it, and you.  We intentionally fund israel because we know that it enrages you, for example..and that you will speak out and act out on that - granting us pretext for greater funding of isreal..which is just a forward airbase in the middle east, to us.

Harsh, I know.....lol.

You see, Islam always has believers because  all the systems in the world has something missing; they all fail to contain the individual fully, they fail to satisfy the needs of a person fully. The terrible acts of Sunni/Shiite figureheads are not to be blamed on the source book.

Hey, look..it's all of you blaming what you do and don't do on magic book..not me..lol?  I can see that you're all getting conned....even if the only person conning you..is yourself.  OFC those nutbars are blaming a book for their own bullshit.  So are you.

That's kind of the point......understanding that, both that you will do that, and how it will pan out in relation to others with similar compulsions..is the lever of control that the great satan has (and has always had) over the middle east and it's warring chieftans.  

Islam provides what human systems can't provide.

IDK, we don't seem to have islam problems over here?  Our system is pretty human.....I'm not sure that this comment will go the direction you had intended it to.......

Avoiding any quibbling over the fact that islam is an equally human system, it does... indeed... appear to provide some things that other human systems don't...alot of which goes boom at three in the morning.

Ask around the whole world, and you'll find a lot of people saying that Islam's concepts cured them actually from so many diseases like racism and blind nationalism.

People all around the world say lots of things.  And?

The best times in our time as Middle Eastern people were the times Islam led the world.

OFC..to the victor go the spoils.  We Murricans are thoroughly familiar.

Israel's creation is as problematic to me as the Spanish Conquests of the Americas. It's painful to see what happened to the Native Americans happen allover again but to Arabs this time.

The campaign of military conquest which formed the religion and cultural phenomena of islam is another representative of that same set. We, in the west, also see it the way that you do. Though we generally consider our own actions worse - the natives weren't exactly threatening us with terrorism, chemical weapons and other assorted hijacked wmds, or potentially capable conventional invasions....lol.

[Brian37]

Instead of thinking in religious terms, which is where most people think their morality is magically handed down to them, think in natural terms.

If you would rightfully agree that many Christians and Jews see you as the enemy, and unfortunately they do, what makes more sense to you? Are they basing that on the fact that you are Charles Manson or Ted Bundy? Or are they basing that on the fact that they, like Muslims, are basing that on religion?

If you go out every day and rape and murder women, or children, like a serial killer, I'd hate you too. But, if you are not doing that, then all our species beefs really amount to tribalism.

---

But the Islamic philosophy about morality is that adapting it is the person's own choice; i.e there are many choices -some are good and some are bad-, and we choose between them. That's what makes up "who you are". Nothing is handed down to us but the ability to choose, the rest is up to us.

I don't think religion is the main motive for hatred between different religious factions; but it is the mob mentality that governs most followers of a certain faith. Take for example a group of Christians, naturally they would reject a Muslim or a HIndu, the rejection would be combined though with attempts of "converting the person into their faith".

That is not limited to religion; Brian: all clubs and all groups do that -almost all-, and religions are just like that:different clubs and lobbies.
It's not just tribalism. You can join any of the clubs -convert your faith-, and mostly you'll be accepted and in some cases cherished too.

Um no Atlass.

I am being very far to you. No religion, not even Buddhism should be called a "philosophy". They are all religions.

Every religion in the world bar none, claims to be the source for the best path to peace. Hatred between different religions or sub sects of the same religions do not have to exist, that part is true, but it takes religion to allow far to many in each camp to make justifications for reasons for tribalism.

While the word "atheist" is not a religion, I also would not want my fellow "off" position holders to go around falsely assuming that if all 7 billion of us were atheists no divisions would happen. Even if all 7 billion of us were atheists we would also have our divisions.

If we are currently speaking at this point in human history, the biggest offenders CURRENTLY WHO CREATE the most tribalism and division would be between Christians, Muslims and Jews. CURRENTLY, even among the same sub sects of each religion.

I think it is better for humans to accept the claims of antiquity belong in the past, not to be forgotten, but only in that the religions of antiquity reflect a far more isolated and ignorant species.

[WinterHold]

 You realize that by supporting any Islam, even the mythical one you seem to want to imagine has or could exist, you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy who is making your life hell, don't you?

No. My enemy -the Sauds- are claiming to be the protectors of Islam and claim Islam as a personal possession, that's why they have a sword in their flag.

Nobody assigned them as representitives of Islam. They are "Muslims" not "Islam". They must stand in line and obey the law of the faith just like any other Muslim.

BTW, the only asset they use to "invade this mythological rank of being Islam's protectors" is the existence of Mecca in their realm. Of course they invaded it. Mecca belongs to nobody but the natives of that land, not "country".

It's just like me invading the Vatican and claim to be "decedent from Jesus because I hold the Vatican". It's ironic, funny, and leads you to think about how simple people are.

So no my dear; believe me my beliefs never gives the Sauds comfort. Rather it makes them so so so so angry.

---

The campaign of military conquest which formed the religion and cultural phenomena of islam is another representative of that same set.  We, in the west, also see it the way that you do.  Though we generally consider our own actions worse - the natives weren't exactly threatening us with terrorism, chemical weapons and other assorted hijacked wmds, or potentially capable conventional invasions....lol.

No. Spanish Conquestadors -followed by Europeans colonists- just fucked the natives up because they couldn't do the same to tougher, more organized empires like the Ottoman empire.

The Conquestadors just bullied the natives because they were weak and they just wanted their land and money. It was so easy for the Spanish crown to make victories there; making victories against Muslims in the East was more...trickier.

---

Um no Atlass.

I am being very far to you. No religion, not even Buddhism should be called a "philosophy". They are all religions.

Every religion in the world bar none, claims to be the source for the best path to peace. Hatred between different religions or sub sects of the same religions do not have to exist, that part is true, but it takes religion to allow far to many in each camp to make justifications for reasons for tribalism.

While the word "atheist" is not a religion, I also would not want my fellow "off" position holders to go around falsely assuming that if all 7 billion of us were atheists no divisions would happen. Even if all 7 billion of us were atheists we would also have our divisions.

If we are currently speaking at this point in human history, the biggest offenders CURRENTLY WHO CREATE the most tribalism and division would be between Christians, Muslims and Jews. CURRENTLY, even among the same sub sects of each religion.

I think it is better for humans to accept the claims of antiquity belong in the past, not to be forgotten, but only in that the religions of antiquity reflect a far more isolated and ignorant species.

But Philosophy means:

a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.

"don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed, that's my philosophy"
synonyms:
beliefs, credo, faith, convictions, ideology, ideas, thinking, notions, theories, doctrine, tenets, values, principles, ethics, attitude, line, view, viewpoint, outlook, world view, school of thought;
Weltanschauung
"I'd like to see your philosophy in action"

? literally Brian; the word "faith" and the word "belief" are both synonyms of the word.
Everybody claims. You claim I claim; Democrats claim while Trump claims too; everybody claims. Isn't this life?

The judge is your action; not claims.

If somebody doesn't like division between humans as a natural fact our minds enforce on our life; I need to really question their psychological state and their position on the right of other humans to live freely.

Tribalism in its most vicious -and fast- way, was shown in the division of land taking place since the conquests of America by Europe. Literally whole nations got killed, and new nations were created out of thin air -engineered to be more accurate- by the hand of the victor in a very fast time, theists never done that and never even could.

But non theists did it in 200 or 300 years.

[The Grand Nudger]

---

The campaign of military conquest which formed the religion and cultural phenomena of islam is another representative of that same set.  We, in the west, also see it the way that you do.  Though we generally consider our own actions worse - the natives weren't exactly threatening us with terrorism, chemical weapons and other assorted hijacked wmds, or potentially capable conventional invasions....lol.

No.

Yes, lol...?

Spanish Conquestadors -followed by Europeans colonists- just fucked the natives up because they couldn't do the same to tougher, more organized empires like the Ottoman empire.

The islamic conquest was halted at the borders of organized powers as well.  

The Conquestadors just bullied the natives because they were weak and they just wanted their land and money.

What do you think the islamic conquest was about..........?

It was so easy for the Spanish crown to make victories there; making victories against Muslims in the East was more...trickier.

Right, a pretty common scenario in conquest.  

Look at you....making excuses and simulataneously boasting of the barbarity of your christianized pagan moon worshippers, lol...losing your shit like this, because somebody breathed the word "israel". You have been conned by hateful people.

[WinterHold]

The Conquestadors just bullied the natives because they were weak and they just wanted their land and money.

What do you think the islamic conquest was about..........?

In the Americas whole races of people went extinct; the rest natives live -to this day- in small, scattered minorities.

In Islamic "spread"; the natives themselves convert.

Turkey is an example.
Egypt is an example.
Bosnia is an example.
Indonisia is an example.
Malasia is an example.

America is your counter "argument", which is really sad.