Liam Neeson: Rape, Revenge, and Race Relations

[bennyboy]

Nah, caring and being a dick aren't the same thing.

I would argue that these days, they kind of are.

I disagree, and in fact I'd say that using bullying tactics ("Agree with me or you're a racist piece of shit!") is more likely to harm whatever cause one cares about than to assist it.  Only the morally very weak will be so afraid of being demonized that they'll actually pull back from what they consider a valid point. But what they MIGHT do is say-- "I can see that there's not going to be a middle ground here, so I'm not going to bother working to find one."

[The Grand Nudger]

But. . . if he doesn't act super edgy and excitable about every PC issue, 

I mostly concern myself with just the one "pc issue"...the issue of the white supremacists influence campaign gaining traction on the left both before but more directly in response to the whitelash of 2016.  Even more specifically, through internet communities and message boards....and even more specifically... atheist and skeptic communities capable of laundering those talking points due to their supposed liberal bias. You know, like ours. It's a full court press, and it works for a wide variety of reasons and without any explicit or intentional bias or racism on the part of it's communicators.

Racists gonna be racists, they're a lost cause.  If people on the left ideologically opposed to racism can't realize both that they're increasingly incorporating the rhetoric of white supremacy and where that rhetoric is coming from...that's an entirely different and more tragic can of worms.

[bennyboy]

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Racists gonna be racists, they're a lost cause.  If people on the left ideologically opposed to racism can't realize both that they're increasingly incorporating the rhetoric of white supremacy and where that rhetoric is coming from...that's an entirely different and more tragic can of worms.

You might want to consider that they don't realize it because it's not true.

The tendency of PC extremists to attempt to shut down conversations about certain issues, often by demonizing participants and generally shitting in the water, is far more problematic in my view, than any particular idea that might be expressed in open conversation.

That's why Sam Harris was selling out stadiums along with Jordan Peterson-- people wanted to hear intelligent discussion, not the constant diarrheic stream of verbal bullshit that we've been subjected to over since the internet blew up and college kids started mistaking popular memes for good ideas.

Dogma is for weak-minded individuals to conveniently find each other and to take comfort in their mooing masses. It's not good at all for addressing race issues or anything else.

[The Grand Nudger]

It very literally is your problem.  It's quickly becoming a problem for other people.  It's not because you're a chump..but because racists aren't.  They've modified their approach to what works.

"PC extremists" try to shut this or that down because it was deplatforming that made racism a fringe ism for these last few decades. Nobody gave some hood wearing yokel the time of day. Now they sell out stadiums and generate clicks...that's changed, because they found a way around deplatforming by altering their packaging. An unsuspecting audience is suddenly awash with white supremacist rhetoric they aren't used to identifying as white supremacist rhetoric, coming from trusted sources and normalized as just another opinion among opinions. On the off chance that someone notices it and points it out, that causes an emotional response on the part of the person now repeating it..because they're not a racist, how dare you imply they're a racist..and isn't that just like a self loathing white to say, anyway?

Tell me that you at least appreciate the irony, lol?

[bennyboy]

It very literally is your problem.  It's quickly becoming a problem for other people.  It's not because you're a chump..but because racists aren't.  They've modified their approach to what works.

"PC extremists" try to shut this or that down because it was deplatforming that made racism a fringe ism for these last few decades.  Nobody gave some hood wearing yokel the time of day.  Now they sell out stadiums and generate clicks...thatl;s changed, because they found a way around deplatforming by altering their packaging.

Look, if your method of changing ideas is to prevent the expression of contrary ideas by bullying tactics, then you're doing it wrong. Let me pick no bones about this one-- free speech is right, and attempts to limit it to the scope of any particular dogma are wrong. End of story.

Let's take the current example. Neeson was very clearly attempting to shed light on the negative instincts that can take hold of people; it was a commentary on human nature, and an attempt to show that a bad moral moment doesn't have to define a person's life.

If you consider intent, then you'll see that Neeson is one of the good guys. If you consider only trigger words and memes, then you'll end up with a bunch of screechy nitwits saying how he's carrying the script for the alt-right.

[The Grand Nudger]

In the new narrative, people opposed to racist ideology, and not racists, are "bullying". Left is right and up is down..and it works.

[bennyboy]

In the new narrative, people opposed to racist ideology, and not racists, are "bullying".  Left is right and up is down..and it works.

It's not your opposition to racist ideology which is bullying.  It's your bullying which is bullying. Don't play the victim, here-- you've by far been the aggressor in this thread and others like it, and have made it impossible for anyone who doesn't agree with literally every meme you want to bring up to escape demonization-- whatever their intent, their politics, or their views about race or anything else. You are working very hard, in my opinion, to alienate those whose views, while maybe not word-for-word meme-perfect, are very much aligned with yours. That's counterproductive.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, because in the new narrative, pointing out where white supremacist ideology is coming from, where it ended up, and how..is bullying.

That much is certainly the opinion of the alt right, they constantly say as much, and it's central to the white greivance pulsing at the heart of 2016. It's almost as if racists have figured out what's important to you and grifted the ever living shit out of it by attaching their ideology as a free-rider. What's next, the free speech angle?

[bennyboy]

Sure, because in the new narrative, pointing out where white supremacist ideology is coming from, where it ended up, and how..is bullying.

That much is certainly the opinion of the alt right, they constantly say as much, and it's central to the white greivance pulsing at the heart of 2016.  It's almost as if racists have figured out what's important to you and grifted the ever living shit out of it by attaching their ideology as a free-rider.  What's next, the free speech angle?

When you associate liberals with racists, whom they don't like, because they don't parrot your memes closely enough, then that's bullying-- it's the threat of demonization, and the triggering of an understanding of what that means. And, if it develops politically far enough, it's extremely dangerous. You're about one bad brownie from calling us all bourgeouisie and demanding our heads.

As for free speech, it's not an angle.  It's a central principle in a free democratic society.  Your version is "free speech, so long as you agree with me completely."  That's not even a poor man's free speech-- it's liberal fascism.

If your ideas are strong, let them stand up on their own two feet. Support them with facts, with logic, even with persuasive speech if you like. But don't make a new kind of oppression the answer to an old one. Dogma isn't cool, bro.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm pointing out that some liberals have associated themselves with racists...I certainly hope that they've done so unintentionally, and the trend is getting bigger...but that this probably explains why people misidentify them -as- racists for thoroughly rational reasons.  

Now that we've briefly skimmed the free speech grift as relayed by racists...we're on to the part of the new narrative where opposition to white supremacist ideology is oppression.  Also a white supremacist favorite.

Look, lol..I get it, I get that you hate the racists, and that it very much hurts your feefees to be associated with them.  Well..then..stop doing that? How hard can that be? I mean..I say that, but I do see that white supremacists have become far more sophisticated than their passive opponents at the present moment. Guess they really weren't just a bunch of trolls screwing with the normies on reddit after all, huh? Lots of people have swallowed a racist pill..they can get super angry at the person who points that out, or they can do something about it. That's just where we're at now, welcome to hell-world..the dumbest timeline.