Surreal day on the job...more of the same on the way.

[Fake Messiah]

Ah, Lucifer was the greatest of the angels, he even walked in the Garden of Eden with God.

Ah, maybe in the Bible according to Godscreated, but in the rest of the Bibles Satan is mentioned first time in Zechariah and First Chronicles where Satan is depicted as a member of God's court whose basic duty is to accuse human beings before God. He is not presented at this point as an enemy of God or as a leader of evil, demonic forces. (Zech. 3:1–2; and 1 Chron. 21:1)

The heaven and earth that is mention in Matthew's passage is this planet and it's atmosphere, and there is the possibility it could be all of the universe.

I told you that they used the same word for all "heavens". Also people at that time did not have a notion of the atmosphere and they thought that the heaven above stretches indefinitely. Therefore they also didn't know about the universe or what the stars were. Not until 17th century when Evangelista Torricelli discovered air pressure did people realize that the heaven is not infinite because air pressure gets weaker with altitude until it disappears and that's how the universe was discovered. And just before Torricelli discovered that, England's bishop Francis Godwin wrote a novel "The Man in the Moone" in which a man flies to the Moon riding on a pack of geese tied to a carriage, because people thought that the atmosphere simply continues forever and writers of the Bible were no better. So they did not know of other heavens, they did not know of the universe, did not know that stars were Suns and they did not know of parallel dimensions - which is even today just a concept in SF stories.
Therefore people that wrote the Bible thought that God and all the saints lives in the heaven above which is layered in seven layers (have you ever heard of a Christian TV show called "7th Heaven"?). You can see that, for instance, when Paul claims he knows a guy who "was taken as far up as the third heaven," (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) -- So no other dimensions!

[Godscreated]

Ah, Lucifer was the greatest of the angels, he even walked in the Garden of Eden with God.

Ah, maybe in the Bible according to Godscreated, but in the rest of the Bibles Satan is mentioned first time in Zechariah and First Chronicles where Satan is depicted as a member of God's court whose basic duty is to accuse human beings before God. He is not presented at this point as an enemy of God or as a leader of evil, demonic forces. (Zech. 3:1–2; and 1 Chron. 21:1)

Shows how little you know about the scriptures, copy and paste is your mode. Lucifer and Satan are the same beings and he was first mentioned in Genesis 3.

The heaven and earth that is mention in Matthew's passage is this planet and it's atmosphere, and there is the possibility it could be all of the universe.

I told you that they used the same word for all "heavens". Also people at that time did not have a notion of the atmosphere and they thought that the heaven above stretches indefinitely. Therefore they also didn't know about the universe or what the stars were. Not until 17th century when Evangelista Torricelli discovered air pressure did people realize that the heaven is not infinite because air pressure gets weaker with altitude until it disappears and that's how the universe was discovered. And just before Torricelli discovered that, England's bishop Francis Godwin wrote a novel "The Man in the Moone" in which a man flies to the Moon riding on a pack of geese tied to a carriage, because people thought that the atmosphere simply continues forever and writers of the Bible were no better. So they did not know of other heavens, they did not know of the universe, did not know that stars were Suns and they did not know of parallel dimensions - which is even today just a concept in SF stories.
Therefore people that wrote the Bible thought that God and all the saints lives in the heaven above which is layered in seven layers (have you ever heard of a Christian TV show called "7th Heaven"?). You can see that, for instance, when Paul claims he knows a guy who "was taken as far up as the third heaven," (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) -- So no other dimensions![/quote]

 I never said they knew of or even mentioned other dimensions, that's is an idea drawn from what is in the scriptures because of today's knowledge. All anyone had to do was scale Mt. Ararat and know that the availability of breathable air was less on top than at the bottom and Ararat was well within reach of Jerusalem. Like I said it could mean the entire universe which I believe it is, so it doesn't matter what they knew at the time now does it. The sun thing is about as stupid a thing as could be said, they were called stars then as they are know. They may not have known they were like our sun but then that doesn't matter either because they believed the entire universe that they knew about was going to be destroyed.

GC

[Fake Messiah]

Lucifer and Satan are the same beings and he was first mentioned in Genesis 3

LOL and where exactly is Satan mentioned in Genesis 3?

I never said they knew of or even mentioned other dimensions, that's is an idea drawn from what is in the scriptures because of today's knowledge.

That's wishful thinking.

The sun thing is about as stupid a thing as could be said, they were called stars then as they are know. They may not have known they were like our sun but then that doesn't matter either because they believed the entire universe that they knew about was going to be destroyed.

Cut the crap GC, there are literally verses in the Bible of "prophecies" how the stars will fall from heaven onto Earth - that's completely impossible from what we know about and which is a proof writers of the Bible did not know about the universe nor had the slightest idea of what stars were.

All anyone had to do was scale Mt. Ararat and know that the availability of breathable air was less on top than at the bottom and Ararat was well within reach of Jerusalem.

And how would they know "that the availability of breathable air was less on top than at the bottom" since no one climbed Mt. Ararat until 19th century? As well as all other mountain peaks. People didn't know how to climb them nor did they had tools. Needles to say you ignored the part where I wrote how people thought that the air goes forever.

[Drich]

Did you not know on Jesus' last moments as a free man he wanted to goto the garden of gethsemane to pray, and he knew he would be confronted or maybe killed along the way. so he told his disciples to arm themselves.

That is certainly an interesting interpretation.

In fact, Jesus tells them to buy swords, but makes no mention of them marching armed to Gethsemane.  Indeed, with His very next breath He says "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me".  What is written will not be accomplished if His disciples fight off those coming to take Him to His pre-ordained destiny.   And just an hour later, when one of them does brandish a weapon, Jesus admonishes him to "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Most interpretations take the earlier injunction to 'sell their garments and buy a sword' as a metaphor for the perils the disciples would face going forward, once Jesus was gone, and not as a call to a Christian arms race.[/quoe] I'm aware of what the interpretation say. which is why I said the swords where for the journey along the way... It is obvious the swords where not to fend off the temple guards to whom judas betrayed jesus too, as you pointed out Jesus admonishes peter for using it. but you can not deny that very sword would not be there if not for His command. which means it's purpose took place between the orer to buy them and peter cutting the ear off the gaurd..

Not only that the expense but the imminent danger/threat of selling your outer garment (due to exposure to the cold) to buy a sword that without this garment could not be concealed. which means that there was a greater danger closer at hand than freezing to death but was over when the temple gaurds arrived. which means the swords where a none verbal threat for all who came across them without having to confront which is why I said they were for confrontation or a viable threat along the way.

Living by the sword means training and depending on the sword for life. however Christ did use the sword to back down people without saying a word to them as their journey was uneventful.

Jesus had it with in him to single handedly disarm all of them, and he infact did so with a single word that dropped the gaurds to their knees. Despite this his disciples did infact bring swords/mechanical means to defend themselves. Why? because not every situation needs the supernatural intervention of God.

That doesn't make sense.

why? Is your idea of God so limited that he can only move supernaturally??? If say bounty hunter looking to cash in on the temple reward saw an opportunity to take rocks and beat the disciples and capture or try and kill jesus on the way to the garden.. Jesus like with the soldiers could have knocked them down without nothing more than a single word from his mouth... but rather than that he used the mechanical means of arming his entarague with swords.. so then when/if men of opportunity saw them but also saw that they were armed with proper swords... Swords beat rock as a matter of course no supernatural intervention needed.. no words needed.. no threats.. nothing more than a glance was needed to ensure safe passage with a man and a bunch of guys with swords. Jesus obviously have no intention of using the swords but demanded them to each carry one.. the only other purpose to having a sword besides killing someone it to look like you are able especially in a group.

I mean, sure, if Jesus is taking a siesta, or God has gone fishing for the weekend, then maybe the disciples need to look out for themselves for a while.

but why in your world is God only able to do things supernaturally? Look at Jesus' teachings... where they supernatural? or just mind blowingly indepth and powerful on their own?
Christ has a history of using common things to produce Godly results.

But He is right there with them.  If God has supernatural powers that can accomplish such miracles, why not  use them all the time?  Is there some supernatural energy source that gets depleted, if He uses it too much?   If Jesus drops all the swords with a word, or walks on water, does he have to high-tail it to some heavenly power battery to recharge, like Green Lantern and his power ring?

what where the temptations of Christ about (not the scorsese movie) but the real temptations? one was turning bread to stone one was to jump off the temple's highest point and have the angels catch him infront of everyone so they would know who he is.. In those two the sin was abuse of his power to meet his personal need. or want. that was his whole purpose to go to the garden as it was quiet and he could pray to find out how much of this upcoming punishment could he avoid or abade. to not us is power in a self serving way, but in a way to serve God.

If you look at when Jesus uses his power it is to bring glory to God and to establish his power and authority as a representative to God. minus turning water to wine which he even says is not my place to do but did for his family.

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[quote='Drich' pid='1886327' dateline='1550676006']

So what the problem is?

Do you mean to say your hate for christians is like that of whites who hated blackpeople back at the beginning of the 20th centry? are you so disgusted by christians that you can't do your job?

Or is your understanding of god so limited that the protocols and cameras to you are evidences of no God?

Did you not know on Jesus' last moments as a free man he wanted to goto the garden of gethsemane to pray, and he knew he would be confronted or maybe killed along the way. so he told his disciples to arm themselves. Jesus had it with in him to single handedly disarm all of them, and he infact did so with a single word that dropped the gaurds to their knees. Despite this his disciples did infact bring swords/mechanical means to defend themselves. Why? because not every situation needs the supernatural intervention of God. meaning if we have it with in our ablity to watch with cameras then we are to watch with cameras.

or do you simply not like the accountability the camera put on you?

Wow.  It's nasty-assed Christians like you that give Christians a bad name.  Your post was so uncalled-for and over the top that I found myself searching in the rep section here for the first time to check for sure to see if there was any way I could give you a negative rep.  You are a shame to your people.

Christians are just people sport. Do you really see an enemy when you read what I write? I see a brother or even myself in alot of what you all write. the only difference I don't hate God nor to I hate those who hate God. again just people like my self and If I wrote what you wrote it would have been for the reasons I listed. Either I would just be bigoted, did not understand how God works or did not want the accountability of being watched. I mean if you went to a bank and worked you would be under the same scrutiny all the time so what would be the difference here?

Perception on how the church works or you hate people who don't think like you do. and you quick judgement to me seems to suggest the latter of the two

[EgoDeath]

I find it hilarious when people pretend to know the intentions of words written thousands of years ago by people whose names we don't even know. There are so many different ways you can interpret different parts of the Bible; there can be as many interpretations as there are people reading it. The fact is, the Bible is a poorly written, terribly organized pile of garbage that really follows no order, reason or logic. It's just a collection of a bunch of shit people wrote a long time ago.

Who cares?

[Godscreated]

Lucifer and Satan are the same beings and he was first mentioned in Genesis 3

LOL and where exactly is Satan mentioned in Genesis 3?

The serpent, didn't think you would know this.

I never said they knew of or even mentioned other dimensions, that's is an idea drawn from what is in the scriptures because of today's knowledge.

That's wishful thinking.

Maybe but it explains a lot that happens in scripture, and as peanut says, zoom right over your head.

The sun thing is about as stupid a thing as could be said, they were called stars then as they are know. They may not have known they were like our sun but then that doesn't matter either because they believed the entire universe that they knew about was going to be destroyed.

Cut the crap GC, there are literally verses in the Bible of "prophecies" how the stars will fall from heaven onto Earth - that's completely impossible from what we know about and which is a proof writers of the Bible did not know about the universe nor had the slightest idea of what stars were.

Like I said it doesn't matter what they believed about the universe they knew it was going to be destroyed. As for the verses metaphor, I mean really did you not give one thought about God knowing the Bible was going to be taught in the 20th and 21st centuries. He gave it in a form that could be understood and known throughout history, smarten up.

All anyone had to do was scale Mt. Ararat and know that the availability of breathable air was less on top than at the bottom and Ararat was well within reach of Jerusalem.

And how would they know "that the availability of breathable air was less on top than at the bottom" since no one climbed Mt. Ararat until 19th century? As well as all other mountain peaks. People didn't know how to climb them nor did they had tools. Needles to say you ignored the part where I wrote how people thought that the air goes forever.

 That's in a time when recording events is what we do. You have no idea whether anyone climbed Ararat back then and they did not need to go to the peak to find out the air was less, I've climbed 10,000 feet starting from 8,000 feet and i can tell you that every 500 feet became more difficult. My whole point was that they could have known that the higher one goes the less habitable it is. They could have possibly reasoned that at some point one could not survive at a certain height. You like to think these people were stupid, far from it, they were able to build structures with hand tools only that we can't accomplish today.

GC

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I find it hilarious when people pretend to know the intentions of words written thousands of years ago by people whose names we don't even know. There are so many different ways you can interpret different parts of the Bible; there can be as many interpretations as there are people reading it. The fact is, the Bible is a poorly written, terribly organized pile of garbage that really follows no order, reason or logic. It's just a collection of a bunch of shit people wrote a long time ago.

Who cares?

I'm guessing you haven't read it. It is well written and follows a path through time for certain events to come to fruition for certain reasons that some of us wanted to know, so we studied and learned. 

GC

[Fake Messiah]

The serpent, didn't think you would know this

How could I know this since book of Genesis never said that the serpent was Satan? Also the serpent was cursed to crawl on his belly all the rest of his days, but in the book of Job, Satan is still walking around and chatting with God as if they’d never had a falling out. Job 1,7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Maybe but it explains a lot that happens in scripture

Except the parts where Paul mentions he met a guy that visited third heaven and the fact that we have many Jewish and Christian books with that kind of cosmology - but for some reason it's all on your ignore list.

As for the verses metaphor, I mean really did you not give one thought about God knowing the Bible was going to be taught in the 20th and 21st centuries.

LOL! The old "metaphor" cop-out.

You have no idea whether anyone climbed Ararat back then and they did not need to go to the peak to find out the air was less, [...] You like to think these people were stupid, far from it, they were able to build structures with hand tools only that we can't accomplish today.

You mean to say that I and everybody else have no evidence that anyone climbed Mt. Ararat in ancient times or had any knowledge about air pressure. I mean if you're making up bullshit why not say that they had hot air balloons in which they flew around and gathered all sorts of knowledge - I mean why not? They were not stupid - as you say - and they certainly had the tools to do it.

[EgoDeath]

I find it hilarious when people pretend to know the intentions of words written thousands of years ago by people whose names we don't even know. There are so many different ways you can interpret different parts of the Bible; there can be as many interpretations as there are people reading it. The fact is, the Bible is a poorly written, terribly organized pile of garbage that really follows no order, reason or logic. It's just a collection of a bunch of shit people wrote a long time ago.

Who cares?

I'm guessing you haven't read it. It is well written and follows a path through time for certain events to come to fruition for certain reasons that some of us wanted to know, so we studied and learned. 

GC

You guessed wrong - no surprise there. Actually attended Bible study for years when I was younger. Have read the book as an adult as well. It's certainly not a chronological story by any means because it's loosely organized in ways that have nothing to do with the order of events. Some parts are chronological but the book as a whole is pretty poorly put together. No surprise though - making your nonsense harder to understand makes it harder for people to easily debunk it.

[Godscreated]

I'm guessing you haven't read it. It is well written and follows a path through time for certain events to come to fruition for certain reasons that some of us wanted to know, so we studied and learned. 

GC

You guessed wrong - no surprise there. Actually attended Bible study for years when I was younger. Have read the book as an adult as well. It's certainly not a chronological story by any means because it's loosely organized in ways that have nothing to do with the order of events. Some parts are chronological but the book as a whole is pretty poorly put together. No surprise though - making your nonsense harder to understand makes it harder for people to easily debunk it.

 I didn't figure you knew much about the Bible there are and have been for quite awhile chronological Bibles, they read well I know I've read one. reading a book and studying a book are two totally different things. Attending Bible study doesn't mean you were learning, I've seen many who attended Bible studies and learned little to nothing, quite sad that many of  today's Christians do not know what the Bible teaches.

GC

GC

GC

[EgoDeath]

You guessed wrong - no surprise there. Actually attended Bible study for years when I was younger. Have read the book as an adult as well. It's certainly not a chronological story by any means because it's loosely organized in ways that have nothing to do with the order of events. Some parts are chronological but the book as a whole is pretty poorly put together. No surprise though - making your nonsense harder to understand makes it harder for people to easily debunk it.

 I didn't figure you knew much about the Bible there are and have been for quite awhile chronological Bibles, they read well I know I've read one. reading a book and studying a book are two totally different things. Attending Bible study doesn't mean you were learning, I've seen many who attended Bible studies and learned little to nothing, quite sad that many of  today's Christians do not know what the Bible teaches.

GC

GC

GC

Yes and they've made chronological Bibles for a reason - normal Bibles are inherently hard to study because everything is out of order. It's easier for you to assume I didn't study the Bible, or even if I did I must not have learned anything, because then it makes it easy for you to dismiss anything I have to say on the subject. It's much harder for you to tackle this if I am actually well-versed in scripture.

But, I doubt anything I could say could prove otherwise to you. And I don't really care to prove it to you. The bible is jumbled nonsense with fairy tales sprinkled in.