(February 21, 2019 at 4:30 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(February 21, 2019 at 4:11 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: I'd actually be alarmed if anyone I worked for told me to not call 911 "no matter what." Just seems creepy. Having security doesn't put you above the law, regardless of how nice your organization is. Sounds shady as fuck.

I've worked in a few environments in which there was a designated person who decided whether to call the police or not.  

Places of worship can be a bit uptight about police being called because of the tradition of sanctuary. In the US, there is no right of sanctuary, and churches can't harbor criminals. But a lot of church people don't agree with that, and think the church should still be a place of refuge. And churches have actively harbored a lot of people from illegal immigrants in our times, to runaway slaves in the mid 19th century. It doesn't really surprise me that a baptist church is uptight about it police entering the sanctuary.

In the synagogues that I have belonged to there was no problem with calling the police. But that's in the US where we trust the cops quite a bit. In one, we even had panic buttons distributed throughout the building, and all regular members were expected to memorize the location of each one.

I understand where you're coming from but if a place told me not to call 911, I would be alarmed. There's no way I'm going to wait for someone else's permission to call 911 or leave it up to them to do so. If I see a fire or an emergency I'm calling 911 - fire me if you have to.

It makes it sound like they have something to hide and I'm not comfortable with that. I've also worked in situations with high security concerns, etc. and have never heard of a place having a policy like this.

They are not just saying don't call the police. They are saying don't call the fire department or EMTs either.

As someone who had a heart attack a little over a year ago, I know how important prompt competent care is. Adding an extra step and more time can be difference between life and death.

My comment that this church is in a high end area was followed up later with the comment that it is also a low crime area. It's probably one of the safest areas in the city. But that's reaction to the crime rate. It doesn't mean that other things like fires and health issues don't happen. Time means a lot when trying to bring someone back to health after a heart attack, stroke, or head injury, or injury with a lot of blood loss.


Due to the area and proximity to excellent hospitals calling the EMTs seems to be the thing to do in a medical emergency...not calling the guy who took a first aid and CPR class.

It has nothing to do with being against Christians or not understanding that wealthy people want security.

Good points.

(February 21, 2019 at 3:42 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(February 20, 2019 at 10:00 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: So what's the issue? Just working in a church? lol I don't really mind churches, though I don't know if I'd want to be stuck in a church basement for three months either - sounds like a bad horror movie.

She's apparently surprised that wealthy people like to have good security.

Far too reminiscent of the Catholic church saying they'd invest child molesting priests themselves so there's no need to call the police for my liking.

Private security is fine but their powers and abilities are limited. And seriously, if someone had a stroke are you going to call the local security company or the EMTs?

(February 21, 2019 at 10:34 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(February 21, 2019 at 3:42 pm)Yonadav Wrote: She's apparently surprised that wealthy people like to have good security.

Far too reminiscent of the Catholic church saying they'd invest child molesting priests themselves so there's no need to call the police for my liking.

Private security is fine but their powers and abilities are limited.  And seriously, if someone had a stroke are you going to call the local security company or the EMTs?

Yea that's legitimately creepy and makes it sound like they have something to hide.

(February 20, 2019 at 11:20 am)Drich Wrote: Did you not know on Jesus' last moments as a free man he wanted to goto the garden of gethsemane to pray, and he knew he would be confronted or maybe killed along the way. so he told his disciples to arm themselves.

That is certainly an interesting interpretation.

In fact, Jesus tells them to buy swords, but makes no mention of them marching armed to Gethsemane.  Indeed, with His very next breath He says "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me".  What is written will not be accomplished if His disciples fight off those coming to take Him to His pre-ordained destiny.   And just an hour later, when one of them does brandish a weapon, Jesus admonishes him to "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Most interpretations take the earlier injunction to 'sell their garments and buy a sword' as a metaphor for the perils the disciples would face going forward, once Jesus was gone, and not as a call to a Christian arms race.

Quote:Jesus had it with in him to single handedly disarm all of them, and he infact did so with a single word that dropped the gaurds to their knees. Despite this his disciples did infact bring swords/mechanical means to defend themselves. Why? because not every situation needs the supernatural intervention of God.

That doesn't make sense.

I mean, sure, if Jesus is taking a siesta, or God has gone fishing for the weekend, then maybe the disciples need to look out for themselves for a while.

But He is right there with them.  If God has supernatural powers that can accomplish such miracles, why not  use them all the time?  Is there some supernatural energy source that gets depleted, if He uses it too much?   If Jesus drops all the swords with a word, or walks on water, does he have to high-tail it to some heavenly power battery to recharge, like Green Lantern and his power ring?

(February 21, 2019 at 3:46 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(February 21, 2019 at 1:59 am)Godscreated Wrote: The Bible doesn't say that.

Yeah, GC is right: look into the Bible to understand its followers. And if you look at the Bible you'll find out that God has a huge army in Heaven because he is scared that the Satan will rob him and kill him, so if a God is a scared little bitch you can imagine what his followers are since they consider themselves lower life forms.

Satan was once at the head of that army and thus the army existed before Satan. God did not need an army to kick Lucifer out of heaven and send him hurling to earth. By the way that means God tossed Lucifer from one dimension into another, that would be much more than a little ride through space, it means defying time and space as we understand it. Also, Satan has no more power than God allows him to have as the Bible tells us. What a dimwit you are.

GC

(February 22, 2019 at 3:22 am)Godscreated Wrote: army existed before Satan

Yeah, God was always a scared little bitch.

(February 22, 2019 at 3:22 am)Godscreated Wrote: Satan was once at the head of that army

Nope. Again, GC, you embarrass yourself how little you know the Bible.

(February 22, 2019 at 3:22 am)Godscreated Wrote: God did not need an army to kick Lucifer out of heaven and send him hurling to earth.

Well, there was somebody making violence in heaven Matthew 11:12 "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force."
Since it wasn't Satan maybe it was just God, we all know how violent he gets.

(February 22, 2019 at 3:22 am)Godscreated Wrote: By the way that means God tossed Lucifer from one dimension into another

Well, that's just stupid and completely uncorroborated.

(February 22, 2019 at 3:22 am)Godscreated Wrote: Also, Satan has no more power than God allows him to have as the Bible tells us.

That's why there are dragons that have much more power than God allows them

Rev. 12:7 "There was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels."

And somebody will destroy that Heaven and my guess it's Satan! Mathew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Also we we should note that the word in this verse comes from the Greek word ouranos which is the only word used for "heaven" in all the Gospels so no some stupid excuse of some other heaven.

(February 20, 2019 at 8:34 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Simply - about all the safety stuff.  This is a church in a low crime area.  I have searched online looking for violent incidents and can't find a history of anything.  I do understand the weather and fire issues, that's pretty standard.

What was really odd to me was how many times it was repeated that no matter what you see/hear or think you see/hear...you are not to call 911...period, end of story.  You are to call an internal number and report the problem if they deem it necessary.  So, if you walk past a room that full of flames  - not totally unthinkable since there's a big industrial kitchen  - you are not to call 911.  

Why would that be a rule?  

Yes, due to the fact that you aren't supposed to contact 911 under circumstances where you would call 911 at any other time it makes me wonder what they are so paranoid about and what they think has to be covered up.

There are other things too...most of which have little to do with religion or my atheism.  But thanks to all the Christians who thought they needed to jump in.

Surreptitiously record everything, take electronic copies of every document you inspect.

Six months later, from a state half the country away (or better yet somewhere foreign) post hard copies of everything you find to the local police and IRS, anonymously.

As sure as eggs is eggs, this church is hiding illegal activities.

(February 22, 2019 at 8:59 am)Nomad Wrote:

(February 20, 2019 at 8:34 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Simply - about all the safety stuff.  This is a church in a low crime area.  I have searched online looking for violent incidents and can't find a history of anything.  I do understand the weather and fire issues, that's pretty standard.

What was really odd to me was how many times it was repeated that no matter what you see/hear or think you see/hear...you are not to call 911...period, end of story.  You are to call an internal number and report the problem if they deem it necessary.  So, if you walk past a room that full of flames  - not totally unthinkable since there's a big industrial kitchen  - you are not to call 911.  

Why would that be a rule?  

Yes, due to the fact that you aren't supposed to contact 911 under circumstances where you would call 911 at any other time it makes me wonder what they are so paranoid about and what they think has to be covered up.

There are other things too...most of which have little to do with religion or my atheism.  But thanks to all the Christians who thought they needed to jump in.

Surreptitiously record everything, take electronic copies of every document you inspect.

Six months later, from a state half the country away (or better yet somewhere foreign) post hard copies of everything you find to the local police and IRS, anonymously.

As sure as eggs is eggs, this church is hiding illegal activities.

It's always amusing when a dirtbag thinks that saying things that make it clear that they can never be trusted with anything ever thinks that this makes them seem clever. No dirtbag. You're just an idiot that no one can trust with anything, ever. You're not clever. You're just a dirtbag.