Homosexuals and Heaven

[cdog]

Have you considered that being openly homosexual has been uncommon for the last 1700 years in western society because christians would kill you for it? Being an astronaut is pretty uncommon. Disease?

Characterizing a persons preference, however odd, as a disease is a bit misleading. Cancer, sickle-cell and schizophrenia actually cause harm, if we grant that homosexuality is rare or "abnormal" it's more akin to having an unusual eye colour.

[Dotard]

Being different doesn't mean your "sick"

Would you say the same for the schizophrenic?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Being different doesn't mean your "sick"

Would you say the same for the schizophrenic?

Sorry Dotty, with absolutely no respect for your oft stated homophobia,that's a rather silly straw man.

[Dotard]

Being an astronaut is pretty uncommon. Disease?

Doesn't compare. Abnormal behavior doesn't compare to employment.

...if we grant that homosexuality is rare or "abnormal" it's more akin to having an unusual eye colour.

I'd maintain it's more akin to a facial 'tic' or one leg shorter than the other or akin to a host of mental disorders, some that can be quite harmless.

A group of homos are having a hot-tub party. One of them notices some jizm floating in the water and yells: "WHO FARTED?!"

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Sorry Dotty, with absolutely no respect for your oft stated homophobia,that's a rather silly straw man.

With absolutely no respect for your damned refusal to put a fucking space after commas and periods, please elaborate.

[cdog]

I'd maintain it's more akin to a facial 'tic' or one leg shorter than the other or akin to a host of mental disorders, some that can be quite harmless.

Why, what about homosexuality itself causes problems for a person? aside from shitty dick.

[salty]

Immoral behavior is the misuse of the body, the mind and words, hence, bad conduct.

Human bodies aren't "made" for flying, so is that immoral?

Now you seem to be arguing that any sex not for procreation is wrong, that if it's just for pleasure then it's "wrong" or "not what it was intended for". But earlier you said

No, sex within marriage that does not yield children is not sinful. It's not sinful because the couple have the right organs to conceive, sadly their bodies are not properly functioning.

So is sex for pleasure fine, as long as it's between a person with testicles and means of delivering sperm, and a person with a uterus? Is any sex other than vaginal sex between two heterosexual people wrong? If a woman has had a hysterectomy is any sex she has wrong?

The flying thing I don't think makes a good example.

I believe I gave an example of fornication too, which is heterosexual sex that is immoral because it lacks loyalty, basically it states that having sex with no commitment is immoral because of the deception of it, which is similar to this phrase: "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free?" This statement basically says that a person is more willing to rush over to a neighbors and get some milk without the payment of care, without the desire to "buy" their own cow, basically with the intention to take advantage of someone for as long as that person is willing, that is what sex without commitment is, and that is misuse of the mind (deceit) and body, immoral.

I don't care if someone says they "love" their heterosexual partner, if one or both are unwilling to commit to a marriage relationship, they are simply committing to using the body of another and deceiving a person into thinking they are valued, that is of course until something better comes along. Really if a person were really valued they would commit their lives to each other and stop trying to gain the pretend feeling of commitment by moving in, having kids, decorating a house and having sex, they would make their vows and announce to the world to keep them accountable for having a committed relationship. People try to complicate it, but marriage is precious and is intended for heterosexual people with the desire to stop using another person and instead to create a deep bond, deep loyalty, this may or may not include procreation, but should they desire it, their bodies were intended to support this desire.

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I think by this point we can all agree that salty is just a brain-addled God slave, has really stupid and ignorant views on this topic, is unable to qualify her position beyond basically shrieking 'THAT DOESNT GO THERE' and is unable to remove the Bible from her arsehole and form a reasonable opinion.

To pre-empt the predictable and incorrect response, nobody has dismissed out of hand any point you've made, salty. In fact, this conversation has gone on an embarrassingly long time considering the lack of reason you've displayed. No, we don't have to 'respect' points of view just because people hold them, if the reasons for holding them are abhorrent and based on nothing, like yours.

Looks to me like you've sunken so low as to attack me personally instead of maintaining that I have the right to my opinion, whether its bible based or not. Unless you're sticking up for yourself I don't see a reason for you to be so hostile about this subject. Is it because of your friends, someone you love? Haven't I made it clear that I do not express this view because I do not push my ways on others? Haven't I made it clear that my brother in law, my former boss, my coworker, my close friend are gay and yet I get along just fine with them? If they asked me I would definitely share my views, but it is not until now that I have approached the subject, actually...the entire reason I responded to this thread was to see if you El Dinero could still be respectful and friendly with me, even though I have a different position on this subject. You and the others talk about judgment, that I pass judgment on others while you pass judgment on me.

Read my posts and you'll soon learn what respect looks like, read your posts and I believe you will find the very definition of judgment.

[cdog]

So in my examples assume the heterosexuals are married.

Why is flying a bad example? What about scuba diving?

I don't agree with you that a married couple is more committed to one another than a non-married couple. Nothing stops a married couple from getting divorced so the whole idea of this "life-long commitment" is just a farce. Not that I think it's a good idea that married couples be forced to stay together; my parents had a rocky relationship but stayed together "for the kids". Rest assured, we were all relieved when they finally separated.

But really the marriage issue is separate from homosexuality.

[GLORYTOGOD!!!]

Yep, I agree. And I'll extend the question to pre-marital sex as well. Why is it wrong?

I may take a stab at this one, though it will be my last post for the night. homosexuallity attacks the very foundation that marriage and family are based upon. the unnatural union of two men, or two women, degrades the value that family gives to society. ultimatly though, you cannot get an answer to this. I am new to this, but i have already read more than one post where an atheist said they were "good people", but to who's standards, because if you dont believe in any form of "god", and have no standard to base right or wrong of of but your own, how do you know what is what?

[salty]

I apologise in advance for what I am about to say, I don't make a habit of being deliberately insulting. Salty, if your words are a true reflection of the way your mind works, then in my honest opinion you are not only astonishingly deluded about human nature (amongst other things) but also possibly one of the most revolting people I have interacted with for quite some time. I can understand if love between two people of the same sex isn't your particular cup of tea, it's not mine either. However, the difference between me and thee is I don't imagine I have the right to impose my values into other people's lives. I don't usually judge others by whether their actions are natural or not - you're sitting at a computer and making your opinions known to people across the planet, how natural is that?

As long as innocent bystanders are not harmed, whatever two or more people choose to do is their own business and nothing to do with you or anybody else. That also includes the bedroom, which is even less to do with you (unless you're invited). This is the twenty-first century; why does any of this still need saying?

Stimbo. I accept your apology.

This thread is called homosexuality and heaven, I think I have the right to speak about homosexuality here, like everyone else. I'm sure it makes you feel better to call me names, but I stand by what I say. I won't be moved because someone on the internet (or in person) thinks my reasons are deluded. I won't be moved because people have this misconception that I am pushing my views on others. Actually, Stimbo, do me a favor and give me proof that my convictions are being "pushed" on anyone. Didn't you come here into this thread? I didn't invite you. Didn't Stucky start this thread? Certainly wasn't me. Didn't El Dinero ask the question that sparked my reply? Since when is answering a question "pushing views onto others"? I doubt you'll be able to provide any proof because the reality of this thread is that my opinion is shaking your foundation and any foundation that is set on proving homosexual behavior is acceptable based on their decision to ignore it. Perhaps you're jealous that I have standards for what is right and wrong. All in all, there are tons of things we ignore, just because it's inconvenient to stand up to people like yourself.

I may disagree, but nothing I have said is hostile. I don't want anything to happen to people that practice homosexuality. I just disagree with the general consensus that states "it's okay."

[cdog]

But Glorytogod, you don't need to be married to have a family, and nothing (other than commitment) keeps a married couple together. Which a non married, and non-heterosexual couple can have.

As for morality, just because we don't believe in the bible doesn't mean we just make it up as we go along. Tomorrow if you stopped being christain, would you think it was ok to go around murdering? When I stopped believing I sure didn't.