[split] What is next for the United States? [GUNS]

[Brian37]

If everyone doesn’t mind, I’d really really like to stay away from the debate about whether abortion is morally wrong or not in this thread, if possible.

Can we please discuss what your thoughts are on what this means for the future of the United States.

That is a tall order considering how wrongfully vilified the right has sold followers politically.

And again, if we are talking about logical consistency here, the same people whom object to it here, still support Israel our ally. And Israel is very liberal with it's abortion laws.

[Losty]

If everyone doesn’t mind, I’d really really like to stay away from the debate about whether abortion is morally wrong or not in this thread, if possible.

Can we please discuss what your thoughts are on what this means for the future of the United States.

That is a tall order considering how wrongfully vilified the right has sold followers politically.

And again, if we are talking about logical consistency here, the same people whom object to it here, still support Israel our ally. And Israel is very liberal with it's abortion laws.

I do not understand how your comment is relevant 🤔

[Brian37]

That is a tall order considering how wrongfully vilified the right has sold followers politically.

And again, if we are talking about logical consistency here, the same people whom object to it here, still support Israel our ally. And Israel is very liberal with it's abortion laws.

I do not understand how your comment is relevant 🤔

You wanted to avoid the word "morality" right?

I simply do not see how that is possible in our current climate, especially with all the logical inconsistencies coming from the right.

Just like guns, everyone can agree that nobody likes the current state of affairs, but nobody can agree on how to solve the problem.

I'd say the problem on both issues is not the left, but the fear of change bought and sold by the right.

[CDF47]

Murdering babies in the womb is sickening.

I have an objection to using the word "sickening" as a replacement for "morally wrong." Morality is not based on what makes us feel ill or not. It is based on what is interpersonally destructive. I like to eat peanut butter, banana, and mayonnaise sandwiches. Some people may find that sickening. But by no means is it morally wrong.

 If you think there is an equal sign between what is "sickening" and what is "morally wrong"... there is a word for that- nihilism. Or more precisely, "nihilistic expressivism."

In meta-ethics, expressivism is a theory about the meaning of moral language. According to expressivism, sentences that employ moral terms – for example, "It is wrong to torture an innocent human being" – are not descriptive or fact-stating; moral terms such as "wrong", "good", or "just" do not refer to real, in-the-world properties. The primary function of moral sentences, according to expressivism, is not to assert any matter of fact, but rather to express an evaluative attitude toward an object of evaluation.[1] Because the function of moral language is non-descriptive, moral sentences do not have any truth conditions. Hence, expressivists either do not allow that moral sentences have truth value, or rely on a notion of truth that does not appeal to any descriptive truth conditions being met for moral sentences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressivism

If you think there is any truth value to the statement, "Murdering babies in the womb is wrong," be careful not to confuse that with how it personally makes you feel.

Yes, it is morally wrong.  I agree with much of what you said.

---

And even outside the issue of abortion. If your argument is that humans should not play God, then you should never go to a doctor yourself. If God knows what he is doing, then doctors are fucking up his plan.

I believe doctors are sent by God.  They have a lot of responsibility on their hands but they get paid well for it.

---

I do not understand how your comment is relevant 🤔

You wanted to avoid the word "morality" right?

I simply do not see how that is possible in our current climate, especially with all the logical inconsistencies coming from the right.

Just like guns, everyone can agree that nobody likes the current state of affairs, but nobody can agree on how to solve the problem.

I'd say the problem on both issues is not the left, but the fear of change bought and sold by the right.

Guns ownership is a Constitutional right which will remain in tact.  It is there to suppress a tyrannical government primarily, as well as for self-defense against criminals who will own the guns regardless.  The right is also included in the Constitution to defend against foreign invading armies.  That's why there will be no change.  It could mean war.

[Brian37]

I have an objection to using the word "sickening" as a replacement for "morally wrong." Morality is not based on what makes us feel ill or not. It is based on what is interpersonally destructive. I like to eat peanut butter, banana, and mayonnaise sandwiches. Some people may find that sickening. But by no means is it morally wrong.

 If you think there is an equal sign between what is "sickening" and what is "morally wrong"... there is a word for that- nihilism. Or more precisely, "nihilistic expressivism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressivism

If you think there is any truth value to the statement, "Murdering babies in the womb is wrong," be careful not to confuse that with how it personally makes you feel.

Yes, it is morally wrong.  I agree with much of what you said.

---

And even outside the issue of abortion. If your argument is that humans should not play God, then you should never go to a doctor yourself. If God knows what he is doing, then doctors are fucking up his plan.

I believe doctors are sent by God.  They have a lot of responsibility on their hands but they get paid well for it.

That makes no fucking sense.

God is all powerful right?  So are you saying he cant do his own work? 

Ethical doctors are not concerned with pay but reducing suffering.

Abortion doctors  love assholes like you protesting their locations. They love living under threat of death, along with their staff. They love pissing you off so much they want their own reality show on par with Duck Dynasty. 

No moron, doctors, regardless of abortion DON'T always do it for the money. But especially not abortion doctors.

[CDF47]

Yes, it is morally wrong.  I agree with much of what you said.

---

I believe doctors are sent by God.  They have a lot of responsibility on their hands but they get paid well for it.

That makes no fucking sense.

God is all powerful right?  So are you saying he cant do his own work? 

Ethical doctors are not concerned with pay but reducing suffering.

Abortion doctors  love assholes like you protesting their locations. They love living under threat of death, along with their staff. They love pissing you off so much they want their own reality show on par with Duck Dynasty. 

No moron, doctors, regardless of abortion DON'T always do it for the money. But especially not abortion doctors.

Yes, of course, God is all powerful.  He does His own work but He also allows man to work as well.  Just like a manager has their own responsibilities but they delegate work out as needed.  The Lord delegates work not because He needs to but because He chooses to.

I agree, ethical doctors are not concerned with pay but reducing suffering.  Look at Doctors without Borders.  Look at doctors that travel to the harshest places to serve a higher purpose.  

Abortion doctors is another story.

---

I know this is a politically hot topic but babies are developed in the womb and they are still aborting them. It just disgusts me.

[Brian37]

I have an objection to using the word "sickening" as a replacement for "morally wrong." Morality is not based on what makes us feel ill or not. It is based on what is interpersonally destructive. I like to eat peanut butter, banana, and mayonnaise sandwiches. Some people may find that sickening. But by no means is it morally wrong.

 If you think there is an equal sign between what is "sickening" and what is "morally wrong"... there is a word for that- nihilism. Or more precisely, "nihilistic expressivism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressivism

If you think there is any truth value to the statement, "Murdering babies in the womb is wrong," be careful not to confuse that with how it personally makes you feel.

Yes, it is morally wrong.  I agree with much of what you said.

---

And even outside the issue of abortion. If your argument is that humans should not play God, then you should never go to a doctor yourself. If God knows what he is doing, then doctors are fucking up his plan.

I believe doctors are sent by God.  They have a lot of responsibility on their hands but they get paid well for it.

---

You wanted to avoid the word "morality" right?

I simply do not see how that is possible in our current climate, especially with all the logical inconsistencies coming from the right.

Just like guns, everyone can agree that nobody likes the current state of affairs, but nobody can agree on how to solve the problem.

I'd say the problem on both issues is not the left, but the fear of change bought and sold by the right.

Guns ownership is a Constitutional right which will remain in tact.  It is there to suppress a tyrannical government primarily, as well as for self-defense against criminals who will own the guns regardless.  The right is also included in the Constitution to defend against foreign invading armies.  That's why there will be no change.  It could mean war.

You go Rambo, Mel Gibson, Dirty Harry. 

Tell you what Sparky, if you insist on being  such a strict originalist, you can have a Musket. And just like abortion, humans know a lot more about technology, medicine an science than we did centuries ago.

If a Muslim argued with you that Allah picks the sex of the baby based on congealed blood, and quoted a Koran verse as proof, would that convince you that Allah is the real God?  I actually had a Muslim argue that years ago.

Funny how 7 billion humans with our countless religions all argue we got it right.

If abortion is murder then to be logically consistent Israel is tyrannical because they value "murdering in the womb" as you stupidly describe. 

You go on with your bad self Snack Patriot.

[CDF47]

Yes, it is morally wrong.  I agree with much of what you said.

---

I believe doctors are sent by God.  They have a lot of responsibility on their hands but they get paid well for it.

---

Guns ownership is a Constitutional right which will remain in tact.  It is there to suppress a tyrannical government primarily, as well as for self-defense against criminals who will own the guns regardless.  The right is also included in the Constitution to defend against foreign invading armies.  That's why there will be no change.  It could mean war.

You go Rambo, Mel Gibson, Dirty Harry. 

Tell you what Sparky, if you insist on being  such a strict originalist, you can have a Musket. And just like abortion, humans know a lot more about technology, medicine an science than we did centuries ago.

If a Muslim argued with you that Allah picks the sex of the baby based on congealed blood, and quoted a Koran verse as proof, would that convince you that Allah is the real God?  I actually had a Muslim argue that years ago.

Funny how 7 billion humans with our countless religions all argue we got it right.

If abortion is murder then to be logically consistent Israel is tyrannical because they value "murdering in the womb" as you stupidly describe. 

You go on with your bad self Snack Patriot.

Yeah, go ahead and bow down to the socialist totalitarian government you so desperately want.  I will hold on to my firearms.  Thank you very much.

[Brian37]

That makes no fucking sense.

God is all powerful right?  So are you saying he cant do his own work? 

Ethical doctors are not concerned with pay but reducing suffering.

Abortion doctors  love assholes like you protesting their locations. They love living under threat of death, along with their staff. They love pissing you off so much they want their own reality show on par with Duck Dynasty. 

No moron, doctors, regardless of abortion DON'T always do it for the money. But especially not abortion doctors.

Yes, of course, God is all powerful.  He does His own work but He also allows man to work as well.  Just like a manager has their own responsibilities but they delegate work out as needed.  The Lord delegates work not because He needs to but because He chooses to.

I agree, ethical doctors are not concerned with pay but reducing suffering.  Look at Doctors without Borders.  Look at doctors that travel to the harshest places to serve a higher purpose.  

Abortion doctors is another story.

---

I know this is a politically hot topic but babies are developed in the womb and they are still aborting them.  It just disgusts me.

Way to try to be "Catholic"

"Leave to Caesar" got it.

Ok genus, if we are on our own now, why would he need a PR department?

No, the reason anyone of any religion quotes their holy books, heros or deities, isn't that humans need them, but because humans get sold the idea, and humans like the idea of having a super protector.

If a Muslim claims Allah is the one true God, you don't buy that do you? If a Muslim is against abortion too, you might agree with that, but still not believe in Allah. It may surprise you to know, there are even atheists against abortion. I don't agree with them as a fellow atheist, and they are rare, but they do exist.

You are not special, no religion is. I object to your bullshit on this topic for the same reason I would object to a Muslim or Jew or Hindu or Buddhist against abortion. 

In a perfect world there would be no abortion. But humans do not live in a perfect world and heath and economics can threaten both.

[CDF47]

By the way.  Hitler took the guns away from dissidents prior to persecuting and killing the Jews.  I also heard he persecuted Christians as well.  Maybe not have murdered that many but persecuted them in different ways from what I heard.