Was the star of Bethlehem a real astronomical event?

[The Grand Nudger]

She's gullible, yeah.

[reverendjeremiah]

ah..a she..

So THAT explains why she has "CoxRox" as her name!

[Godscreated]

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I recently came across this web site:

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/

What if science can show, that the 'star' that was a sign of the Messiah's birth, did exist?

Here's a paragraph from the site:

THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM FASCINATES. For millennia, believers, scoffers and the curious have wondered at the Biblical account of the Star. The Bible recounts unusual, or even impossible astronomical events at Christ's birth. For many doubters, the account of the Star is easily dismissed as myth. For many believers, it's a mystery accepted on faith. But what happens if we combine current historical scholarship, astronomical fact and an open mind? Judge for yourself...

For those who don't like reading, there is this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCLmRB-OpGE

I'd very much appreciate any feedback.

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I have the DVD that you posted a part of, fascinating, you can pick it up at a christian bookstore if you would like to see the entire DVD, it also has a extra bit that will blow your mind.
Now to address the non believers on this site, I've presented the same thing to them a while back and as usual when you give them scientific proofs they call everyone idiots and use a lot of foul language. You see they are afraid of any scientific proof about Christ, it leaves them with nothing bad to say about Him, worst of all they are afraid it will make them look stupid. What they do not seem to understand is this, we see how ridiculous they are when they want keep an open mind and examine the things we bring to an argument. This is the same things they accuse christians of, they have a double standard so they do not have to ever face the reality of Christ. Their attitude should tell you that they do not want to believe because they would not be able to live the lives they see fit for them, what they do not understand is that they can believe in the God of creation and still live the lives they want to God want force them to accept Him as savior.

[5thHorseman]

Open mind, bring things to argument?

Wtf are you on, you are a closed mind, you only accept your way, and nothing would change that. We atheist would change our mind with proof, of which you never, ever bring anything to the table.

'Facing the reality of Christ', you make no sense you deluded idiot. Time for you to take your meds and come back with hard evidence.

The best thing about science btw is that it is neutral, it is just a search of truths and facts. You and your mob are biased.

[Welsh cake]

IF the "star of Bethlehem" was an actual real astronomical event why then do you assume it was a magic man's doing? Why have you ruled out a supernova?



If Betelgeuse should explode within our lifetimes will you interpret that as Christ's second cumming? Note "coming" deliberately misspelled since no such historical figure ever actually arrived in the first place.

[reverendjeremiah]

I have the DVD that you posted a part of, fascinating, you can pick it up at a christian bookstore if you would like to see the entire DVD, it also has a extra bit that will blow your mind.

I have a christian bookstore a few minutes down the road from where I live. I think the next time I'm in that area and have some time to kill, I will go into that store and order a Bigmac at the counter..or some other joke that hits me at the moment. Perhaps ask them if they have anymore of those centerfolds of Mary left.

Now to address the non believers on this site, I've presented the same thing to them a while back and as usual when you give them scientific proofs they call everyone idiots and use a lot of foul language

If it is scientific proof, then it is ALSO scientific proof that the Eqyptian story of Horus' birth (whose story PREDATES the story of Christ's by several hundred years) was ALSO heralded by a star. Until you present SPECIFIC, and EXACTING proof, then I am forced to concluded that the findings are highly speculative. Not to mention, even if this really did happen, it still does not prove that Jesus or Horus ever really existed, much less prove that they were supernatural beings of godlike powers...and until you can understand the need for real evidence, and not this wishy washy circumstancial bullshit, then you will be mocked on this forum every single time you present such bogus contraband as sound scientific fact.

You see they are afraid of any scientific proof about Christ, it leaves them with nothing bad to say about Him, worst of all they are afraid it will make them look stupid. What they do not seem to understand is this, we see how ridiculous they are when they want keep an open mind and examine the things we bring to an argument.

I remember seeing shows like this in my youth, suggesting that Jupiter and saturn happened to line up and made a very bright looking star in the night sky. But, if that is true, then the bible is either wrong or lying. If it was a planet then why does the bible call it "the star". Not to mention the story specifically has the star low in the sky, and moving i order to lead people to the manger. So, either the science is true and the stories are false, or the stories are true and the science is false..you dont get it both ways GC.

This is the same things they accuse christians of, they have a double standard so they do not have to ever face the reality of Christ. Their attitude should tell you that they do not want to believe because they would not be able to live the lives they see fit for them, what they do not understand is that they can believe in the God of creation and still live the lives they want to God want force them to accept Him as savior.

I have read many of your posts. In no way did you ever present anything but wishy washy bogus bullshit pseudoscience like this thread presents. You may as well suggest that the so-called Big foot plaster molds of its foot prints is conclusive proof that not only Big Foot exist, but that he is also a 3,000 year old space traveler who crash landed and is now stranded on this planet. Do you not see how that is pushing the proposed evidence? In the same sense by suggesting that planets could come together to make a bright looking star in the night sky is "proof" that a living god was born 2000 years ago.

[ElDinero]

You see they are afraid of any scientific proof about Christ, it leaves them with nothing bad to say about Him

Everyone else can tell you why the rest of your post is a load of crap, but I'm going to home in on this part.

Allow me to conclusively disprove the above, with this statement. If every word of the Bible were proved to be true, I would have more bad things than ever to say about your shitty religion. The only reason I hold back at all is because it's all a load of shit that never happened. I'm able to treat things like genocide and slavery in the Bible with a sense of irony knowing that they did not happen. Believe me, your book being correct would do the exact opposite of leave me bad things to say. Being true does not make something right.

I hope I've made this point clear enough for you, even though you're a borderline retard.

[Cyberman]

I'd just like to throw in a few things here before we all vanish completely down the rabbit hole. First off, Jupiter orbits the Sun every 11.86 years, and within that period it seems to turn retrograde - as all the outer planets must - every 400 days or so (398.9 to be precise). So basically once every 13 Earth months. Is this your miraculous sign, something that is so wonderfully amazing it's essentially an annual event? I'm sure you could find something just slightly less ambiguous if you tried, such as a lunar eclipse; there's at least two of them a year, surely someone could fudge something to fit.

Second, the retrograde phenomenon is purely an illusion caused by the Earth's faster orbital period, of no more significance than one car appearing to move backwards from the point of view of a second car passing it, or a railway platform appearing to move backwards when the train starts forward, as seen by a traveller aboard said train.

Third, there is a major problem with the 'Bethlehem Star' story. In order to cause a group of astrologers (as opposed to astronomers) to up sticks and set off blindly across the desert, the 'star' must have been regarded as especially significant, or at least unusual. However, the Magi of the story were not, by any stretch of the imagination, the only astrologers on the planet - nor would they have been the only ones in their hometown. Yet we're to believe that they were the only ones who noticed? Unlikely.

Finally, as has already been alluded, there is little that is original in the whole Christ-myth anyway.

[Phaedra]

This is the same things they accuse christians of, they have a double standard so they do not have to ever face the reality of Christ.

[reverendjeremiah]

We atheist would change our mind with proof, of which you never, ever bring anything to the table.

Yeah. I admit, I would very much openly and publicly denounce my atheism, even on the front page of the newspaper and the 6:00 news if a Christian actualy present hard evidence that not only specifically Jesus did really exist, but that he was also the living embodyment of a supernatural creator. I would loudly admit that the Christian was correct and I was wrong and then ask Christians forgiveness for me mocking them when I was so wrong and they were so right.

...but...

Thats would mean that the fleash eating bacteria didnt evolve, but was actually plotted out and created by a creator god. That would mean that Jesus personally and purposefully created the flesh eating bacteria solely for the purpose to eat whatever flesh it came in contact with. Eye worms would also have been created with the sole purpose to bore into human eyes and to make people go blind. And all of the countless nastiness in nature that we deal with today, I would no longer be able to suggest that they evolved that way to survive, but were instead created that way by Jesus to do what it does.

Right now I consider Jesus to be a fictional character put together by a handful of racist, sexist, powerhungry pricks. If actual proof that Jesus existed and is the son of god was shown to me then I would actually dispise him worse, because he would be solely responsible for the horrors on this planet, and not evolution. I cant blame evolution for viruses and parasites, but if a God/Jesus is proven to exist, then I will actually have an intelligent agent to point my finger at and say "You heartless, cruel, sadistic son-of-a-bitch! How could you create polio, and let it kill countless amounts of men, women and children?! Ignoring prayers in silence until godless men of science finally figured how to imunize people from it. You are a dispicable, despotic tyrant that should be spat upon. Not worshipped!"

In other words, it would not change my knowledge that this Jesus character is a douche bag. It will merely enhance it.