Agnosticism IS the most dishonest position

[Belacqua]

You don't cite any theological disputes. Wanting the papists out isn't theological. 

Were they killing each other about whether the presence of Christ in the host was real or symbolic? Or was it based on historical resentments concerning who was in charge, who was perceived as an occupier? 

As I said, religion provides an identity and a rallying point when political and economic issues are causing trouble.

I am irish. You are full of it.

What theological issues caused people to murder each other? 

What historical issues caused lasting resentment because of power, and caused people to divide themselves up along sectarian lines?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I am irish. You are full of it.

What theological issues caused people to murder each other? 

What historical issues caused lasting resentment because of power, and caused people to divide themselves up along sectarian lines?

Oh, ffs.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Seeing as how the catalyst for the whole bit was a civil rights movement that sought to end protestant discrimination against catholics in housing, employment, and policing.....it seems like religion just -might- have been at play.

Why would we believe mere history, or two irish dudes lying fucking eyes and ears, though? Bels got christian hands to wash clean.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Seeing as how the catalyst for the whole bit was a civil rights movement that sought to end protestant discrimination against catholics in housing, employment, and policing.....it seems like religion just -might- have been at play.  

Why would we believe mere history, or two irish dudes lying fucking eyes and ears, though?  Bels got christian hands to wash clean.

Thank you. 

I suppose one could make the case that since no PIRA terrorist planted a note at the scene of his car bombing decrying the finer points of The Second Helvetic Confession, religion has had fuck all to do with the violent deaths of more than 3000 people in NI.

On second thought...no.

Up the long ladder and down the short rope,
To hell with King Billy and God bless the Pope!
And if that doesn't do it, we'll tear them in two,
And send them to Hell with their red, white and blue!

Boru

[Belacqua]

Seeing as how the catalyst for the whole bit was a civil rights movement that sought to end protestant discrimination against catholics in housing, employment, and policing.....it seems like religion just -might- have been at play.  

Why would we believe mere history, or two irish dudes lying fucking eyes and ears, though?  Bels got christian hands to wash clean.

Thank you. 

I suppose one could make the case that since no PIRA terrorist planted a note at the scene of his car bombing decrying the finer points of The Second Helvetic Confession, religion has had fuck all to do with the violent deaths of more than 3000 people in NI.

On second thought...no.

Boru

Religion became a rallying point and identity for conflicts concerning who would rule. 

If this is incorrect, please tell us why. 

Since no bombers did point to the Second Helvetic Confession, or any other theological dispute, but they constantly made points about who would hold political power, I hold that the dispute was political.

Again, please present more than bald assertions as to why this view is incorrect.

What prompted the Catholics and the Protestants to start a conflict in the first place? Did it have something to do with English rule?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Bel will deny any evil committed by religion.His an apologist through and through

[The Grand Nudger]

He's asking a question that was answered in the quoted text directly above the question.

Religion didn't become a rallying point for shit, it literally started as a consequence of protestants..who were irish....denying equality to catholics, who were also irish. When they decided to send in protestant stormtroopers rather than address the issue, they giftwrapped it for paramilitary nutballs who actually did have complaints about who would rule, instead of complaints about misrule. This official response wasn't enough, in the eyes of some protestant irish - they formed their own paramilitary groups whose principle occupation was targeting catholic civilians.

Because they were republicans or seperatists, you may wonder? Nah, it's not like they were sending out surveys beforehand. They were catholics. Good enough.

[Belacqua]

All right, this is an anti-religion forum, so it's futile to try and argue that groups who self-identify according to religion are in fact fighting over political and economic issues.

I hold that no large-scale religious conflict was ever sustained without the underlying causes being about power and resources.

This was true in the Thirty Years' War, which started due to odd inheritance practices is German-speaking areas and intensified when Protestant nobles and Catholic nobles in those areas were wrestling over control, but ended up being a war for power between Catholic France and the Catholic Hapsburgs.

It was true between the Guelphs and the Ghibellines in Italy, who divided along Emperor vs. Pope sectarian lines, entirely about who would wield power.

It was true when the Blues and the Greens were fighting in Byzantium, when one version of theology became associated with the upper classes, and another with the poor. And we know that the upper classes will do what it takes to keep their power.

It's true in the Middle East today, where fights over political dominance and resources cause people to divide up, and in the absence of secular leaders who aren't US toadies, cause people look to imams for guidance. If Kissinger hadn't lied to Syria, and the US hadn't funded Islamists to oppose the USSR, things would look very different.

Religion provides easy answers, both to the people who believe it and the people who blame it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, and the protestants had the power, which they used to disenfranchise catholics.

[Abaddon_ire]

All right, this is an anti-religion forum, so it's futile to try and argue that groups who self-identify according to religion are in fact fighting over political and economic issues.

I hold that no large-scale religious conflict was ever sustained without the underlying causes being about power and resources.

This was true in the Thirty Years' War, which started due to odd inheritance practices is German-speaking areas and intensified when Protestant nobles and Catholic nobles in those areas were wrestling over control, but ended up being a war for power between Catholic France and the Catholic Hapsburgs.

It was true between the Guelphs and the Ghibellines in Italy, who divided along Emperor vs. Pope sectarian lines, entirely about who would wield power.

It was true when the Blues and the Greens were fighting in Byzantium, when one version of theology became associated with the upper classes, and another with the poor. And we know that the upper classes will do what it takes to keep their power.

It's true in the Middle East today, where fights over political dominance and resources cause people to divide up, and in the absence of secular leaders who aren't US toadies, cause people look to imams for guidance. If Kissinger hadn't lied to Syria, and the US hadn't funded Islamists to oppose the USSR, things would look very different.

Religion provides easy answers, both to the people who believe it and the people who blame it.

1 minute 26 video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoCU6Clpkxk

Now grow up.