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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm
(October 24, 2011 at 2:48 pm)lucent Wrote: God isn't a precog. He knows the future because He exists outside of time and everything from beginning to end is in front of Him. He is also not bound by the future. He can, at any time, modify whatever He wants, and change the scenerio to give His creatures different choices. Some things are set in stone, such as judgement day. Others are more fluid. Do you think God involves Himself in whether you eat wheaties or cheerios? Some things are determined but not everything. In any moment, God is capable of offering His creatures significant freedom without pushing them towards one choice or another/
Wrong! I have in one hand a ten dollar bill, in the other a hundred dollar bill. You can choose either one, no strings attached. If you choose the ten dollar bill you will make different choices than if you choose the hundred dollar bill. If decide not to choose either one, that, again, will make a difference in your choices. If I know everything, then by making this offer, I can steer you into a different set of choices of my choosing, but I already knew that is what I would do as much as what you will do. It is still a predetermined illusion of free will.
If the angels could not handle free will without the temptation of the tree of knowledge, then why would your god actually put a temptation in front of Adam and Eve and expect any more responsibility from a 'mere human'?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:13 pm
(October 24, 2011 at 4:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Evidence for what? God, precogs, faeries? There isn't any. Case closed.
I'm not, but you NEED me to be very much. Sorry how that panned out for you.
You just keep making my point stronger and stronger, I don't think you even realize it. If the future can be viewed it is written. Choice is an illusion.
Handled above.
He created me to make my own choices based upon the limitations he set for me. Additionally, beyond the shit he created me not to be able to do, he swung the sword against a fair chunk of the shit I CAN do. Choices indeed.
We can't, because you're fucking nuts amigo..lol.
Handled above.
How very nice of him to let me make a decision between shit sandwiches and shit salad. Pleasant fucker isn't he?
Batshit crazy.
You're never releived of the burden of proof. Oh well. You shouldn't believe a word I say. Educate yourself. If you keep coming back with the same tired shit I know you've been looking in the same tired place.
I'm intellectually incurious about things that are intellectually bankrupt. You should be too. Life is short and then you die, how much time can you afford to waste with this garbage?
Yes, theres no evidence that christianity drew heavily from the greeks (and everyone else they ever came into contact with).................
Jews don't seem to think christianity is very jewish. They called BS first apparently, so, credit where it's due.
Please quote me if you want to continue the conversation.
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Can I actually exercise an option whereby you DON"T continue? I'd like to exercise that please.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 5:22 pm by lucent.)
(October 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm)IATIA Wrote: Wrong! I have in one hand a ten dollar bill, in the other a hundred dollar bill. You can choose either one, no strings attached. If you choose the ten dollar bill you will make different choices than if you choose the hundred dollar bill. If decide not to choose either one, that, again, will make a difference in your choices. If I know everything, then by making this offer, I can steer you into a different set of choices of my choosing, but I already knew that is what I would do as much as what you will do. It is still a predetermined illusion of free will.
No, it's more complex than that. The only way that could be valid is if God already knows every thought He is ever going to have, and if He knows that, then He can always create one thought more. It streams into infinity. God surpasses all of these limitations and is always capable of being perfectly fair because He always has options. Because He has choices means He can give us choices. It would only be locked in if God had no choices.
(October 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm)IATIA Wrote: If the angels could not handle free will without the temptation of the tree of knowledge, then why would your god actually put a temptation in front of Adam and Eve and expect any more responsibility from a 'mere human'?
The angels were created with knowledge of good and evil. Humans weren't. Much different scenerios.
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:25 pm
LOL, so he fucked up on try two even eh? Maybe the third times the charm?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:33 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 5:40 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(October 24, 2011 at 5:21 pm)lucent Wrote: No, it's more complex than that. The only way that could be valid is if God already knows every thought He is ever going to have, and if He knows that, then He can always create one thought more. It streams into infinity. God surpasses all of these limitations and is always capable of being perfectly fair because He always has options. Because He has choices means He can give us choices. It would only be locked in if God had no choices.
Indeed, it's so complicated that it has appearently far surpassed your ability to tell complication from bullshit. But it take but a little penetration to see beyond you to the disappearence of any complicity and the undiluted nature of the bullshit. Nothing streams into infinity because it runs into a full stop at any god as you imagined doesn't know anything at all about what will happen, period. If a god is omniscient, then he can't change what he knows, else the act of changing defeats omniscience. If he is omnipotent, then he must know nothing, bucause anything he knows is excluded from the effect of his omnipotence.
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:50 pm
(October 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm)IATIA Wrote: Wrong! I have in one hand a ten dollar bill, in the other a hundred dollar bill. You can choose either one, no strings attached. If you choose the ten dollar bill you will make different choices than if you choose the hundred dollar bill. If decide not to choose either one, that, again, will make a difference in your choices. If I know everything, then by making this offer, I can steer you into a different set of choices of my choosing, but I already knew that is what I would do as much as what you will do. It is still a predetermined illusion of free will. (October 24, 2011 at 5:21 pm)lucent Wrote: No, it's more complex than that. The only way that could be valid is if God already knows every thought He is ever going to have, and if He knows that, then He can always create one thought more. It streams into infinity. God surpasses all of these limitations and is always capable of being perfectly fair because He always has options. Because He has choices means He can give us choices. It would only be locked in if God had no choices. Nothing, not a thing, not your god, not any possible god or entity can transverse an infinity. Therefore your god is finite and the thoughts are finite and if your god is as big and bad as you say, your god should know all it's thoughts. Or have I found yet another limitation of your all-powerful wizard? (Yeah, I saw that curtain. Just had to peek.)
(October 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm)IATIA Wrote: If the angels could not handle free will without the temptation of the tree of knowledge, then why would your god actually put a temptation in front of Adam and Eve and expect any more responsibility from a 'mere human'? (October 24, 2011 at 5:21 pm)lucent Wrote: The angels were created with knowledge of good and evil. Humans weren't. Much different scenerios. So what you are saying is that the angels were unable to resist evil, even though they knew better, and Adam and Eve should have been able to resist because they did not know any better?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:56 pm
(October 24, 2011 at 5:33 pm)Chuck Wrote: Indeed, it's so complicated that it has appearently far surpassed your ability to tell complication from bullshit. But it take but a little penetration to see beyond you to the disappearence of any complicity and the undiluted nature of the bullshit. Nothing streams into infinity because it runs into a full stop at any god as you imagined doesn't know anything at all about what will happen, period. If a god is omniscient, then he can't change what he knows, else the act of changing defeats omniscience. If he is omnipotent, then he must know nothing, bucause anything he knows is excluded from the effect of his omnipotence.
Omniscience is to know everything that can be known. He can know everything there is to know, but lack knowledge of something that isn't possible to know at that point and still be omniscient. For instance, say I am about to eat a sandwich. His knowledge at that point is that I am going to eat the sandwich. After I have finished the sandwich, His knowledge is that I have eaten the sandwich. It changes from future to past tense, so His knowledge has the ability to change.
Omnipotence is to do everything that can be done. There are things God can't do, like create a square circle. The problem with these definitions is that they box God in when He necessarily transcends all of these definitions. If He can do basically anything then He can choose not to foreknow certain things. He isn't locked in, nor is He a prisoner in His own mind. I can easily think up many scenerios that are viable, so it isn't going to be too hard for God to do.
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 5:58 pm
"That can be done"
"That can be known"
These are your own qualifiers for the terms as they relate to god because you realized how absolutely stupid the claims were at face value. Here we are arguing over definitions, as usual, because you have absolutely nothing to show for your impotent god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why did god create evil?
October 24, 2011 at 6:00 pm
(October 24, 2011 at 5:50 pm)IATIA Wrote: So what you are saying is that the angels were unable to resist evil, even though they knew better, and Adam and Eve should have been able to resist because they did not know any better?
In retrospect, this brings up a whole new point. If Adam and Eve did not know evil, then they could not known what they did was bad. So, why the punishment?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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